woodster
|
 posted on 21/11/08 at 01:01 PM |
|
|
mind blowing ....... Ford GM ON THE EDGE
still can't believe one of these could go under ...... head shaking
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/united_states/article5202051.ece
|
|
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:12 PM |
|
|
Been on the cards for a bit now, they both skinter that a Manhatten bank!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
woodster
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:14 PM |
|
|
if GM go under 3million people lose there jobs
|
|
|
Alan B
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:16 PM |
|
|
I read that it boils down to..."why should my people I represent in (insert southern state) working at Hyundai/Honda/Toyota/BMW etc. pay more
taxes so that the big three can keep paying assembly line workers the equivalent of $81/hour?"
Basically the big three need major re-structuring and many observers say bankrupcy is the best solution.
|
|
|
Alan B
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:22 PM |
|
|
The last 5 new cars bought by my family out here have been....Nissan, Mazda, Honda, Ford, Toyota......all bought based on the "best vehicle for
the requirement at the time" basis.....says a lot I think..
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:23 PM |
|
|
Both may "go-under" in their current incarnation, but undoubtedly both would also be phoenixed into something that continues to make
cars.
Might be broken up and sold to other car makers (Porsche seem good at buying large automotive companies right now!).
Might be re-invested by the US government/public (not sure their wallet would take any more though).
Might be slimmed right down to focus on the brands and models that can cut-it (that'll be the end of most of the US models then  )
Whilst their cashflow might be going the wrong way right now, both must also have sizeable assets in real estate and other areas - Intellectual
Property for e.g.
It will be intersting to follow though that's for sure 
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:27 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
I read that it boils down to..."why should my people I represent in (insert southern state) working at Hyundai/Honda/Toyota/BMW etc. pay more
taxes so that the big three can keep paying assembly line workers the equivalent of $81/hour?"
Basically the big three need major re-structuring and many observers say bankrupcy is the best solution.
Good point Alan
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
The last 5 new cars bought by my family out here have been....Nissan, Mazda, Honda, Ford, Toyota......all bought based on the "best vehicle for
the requirement at the time" basis.....says a lot I think..
..and another
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:32 PM |
|
|
The big 3 in the good 'ol US of A pay out far too much welfare to past and present employees and their family's.
Bankrupsy would be the ideal situation to get these off their backs and back into an hourly paid situation.
And I'll be sticking with my good old trusty Rover
[Edited on 21/11/08 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
Rosco
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:40 PM |
|
|
No surprises they're in trouble. I go the the US a lot and it's a big relief, though rare, when I get a Euro box or Jap car at the hire
car desk. American cars are just crap; state of the art compared to 20 years ago, possibly, but no good now. Terrible handling, terrble ride, ugly,
and when was 15 - 20 mpg acceptable (even on US fuel)?
They've gone the same way as the UK-owned car industry did 20-30yr ago, failing to set or keep pace with the market. Complete management
failure; and if you can't get your home market right you don't stand a chance elsewhere - terrible shame for all those who's
livelihoods depend in it though, as it was in the UK, and maybe again.
I guess without the credit-crunch they may have had time to address these failings but their only chance now is the US Government.
No idea what this will mean for their factories elsewhere in the world - I feel for thoose guys. And even more consolidation in the supply base
can't be a good thing long term.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 01:49 PM |
|
|
we've seen it before, BSA. At one time one in 3 or some other small numer of bikes in the world was a BSA - where are they now?
What about Rover?
GM cars are crap. They pay too much for ex-employees pensions. They are going down.
|
|
|
Hammerhead
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 02:06 PM |
|
|
Forgetting sentimentality and familiarity of the brands for a moment.
These are commercial companies whilst they employ a lot of people they have become bloated and not lean in terms of management and manufacturing.
The Japanese are doing well in the USA because they sorted their sh!t out years ago and although Toyotas profits have dropped 69% in the US they are
still making profit.
The management at ford and GM have made some management howlers over the years. While admirable to give employees good pensions and benefits it should
have been predicted that it would bankrupt the companies.
They should have stopped the pension schemes to new employees many years ago.
My wife works for a company with 200 emplyees and £40m turnover. They pay generously and give profit related bonuses to all in the company, but they
predicted hard times ahead and have had to stop offering new employees the company pension scheme.
I just think that we are in a period of consolidation over a wide area of industries. There will be fewer car makers, banks, clothes shops etc etc
choice may become more limited but the companies that survive will prbably cover most product areas in their field.
Jobs will be lost and companies will become lean and efficient or die.
Just my 2p
(sermon over )
|
|
|
mad-butcher
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 03:01 PM |
|
|
saw a clip on telly were the 3 ceo's were in front of a congressional commitee, and were asked by a senator to raise their hands if they would
forgo there private jets in favour of std airline $15000 as opposed to $138 none of them raised there hands, the senators face said it all.
|
|
|
speedyxjs
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 03:09 PM |
|
|
it is a shame but all car companies are in the same boat. Even Toyota announced HUGE losses last month.
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 03:27 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
it is a shame but all car companies are in the same boat.
Yes but Ford are better placed as they can anchor their boat.
|
|
|
mad-butcher
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 03:30 PM |
|
|
Honda swindon to close for 50 days
|
|
|
Volvorsport
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 04:03 PM |
|
|
3 million jobs lost - many more in china where the US have been buying for decades .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
|
|
|
smart51
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 04:17 PM |
|
|
Isn't it funny how America totally believed in capitalism right up to the time where times get tough, then the abandon it and give big state
loans, or nationalise companies. If it were only other countries were having a bad time, they'd be screaming "protectionism" and
looking wounded.
|
|
|
chris-p-duck
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 06:04 PM |
|
|
GM and Ford are getting close to the edge but not as close as Chrysler. Their cash will run out in 6 weeks. Yes 6.
Any yet when the big three went cap in hand to the US government each CEO turned up in their own private jets at a cost of $20,000 per return trip.
Not big and not clever.
Personally I hope they get bailed out else the whole industry will go into meltdown as GM/Ford/Chrysler will take all the major global suppliers with
them.
Chris (worried car company employee)
|
|
|
smart51
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 06:34 PM |
|
|
Until last year I worked for TRW, a car component supplier. TRW's turnover for the year was 6 billion US dollars, less than Ford's LOSSES
for the year. Shocking.
It's a bit negative to say it but if a big automotive company goes bust in a shrinking market, the others will be safer as the bust companies
market share will be spread out amongst the others. Parts suppliers and support services will still suffer of course but still its a bit like musical
chairs, so long as you're the one who gets a chair.
|
|
|
TOO BADD
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 08:38 PM |
|
|
Just supposing they did get bailed out...... Where would they keep stacking the cars they keep making that nobody is buying ?
Just think, buying a new car in 2010/2011 when MAYBE this crap is over with you are probably buying a 2/3 year old car !!
|
|
|
BenB
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 10:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by mad-butcher
saw a clip on telly were the 3 ceo's were in front of a congressional commitee, and were asked by a senator to raise their hands if they would
forgo there private jets in favour of std airline $15000 as opposed to $138 none of them raised there hands, the senators face said it all.
Oh I liked that. Too much 
Classic senator hijack tactics!! The CEOs looked like they'd just had their haemorrhoids ripped off
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 21/11/08 at 10:49 PM |
|
|
They've been over-producing for years - cars last longer, people keep them longer before buying a new model, particularly in the current
economic climate. They keep adding gimmicks to tempt people to buy new cars but few people are biting.
I have an 8-year-old Yaris. It's got a 1300cc engine, done 65,000 miles, hasn't a speck of rust and the engine's pulling like a
good'un. Why should I replace it? It still does what I want (mostly home to station & back each day).
My son has a much newer turbo diesel Ford Focus - it's cost him a fortune in repairs. What advantage is it to me to change from my car with
it's known history?
|
|
|
chris-p-duck
|
| posted on 22/11/08 at 10:05 AM |
|
|
It wouldn't surprise me if the US government let Chrysler go as it is owned by a known aggressice venture capital company who were loud and
proud about how good they were going to be at running a car company when they bought it from Daimler. Also Chryslers capacity is equal to the over
capacity is the US car industry - a handy way to solve the capacity problem as long as they handle the fall out with the suppliers going under
etc.
Chris
|
|
|
stevebubs
|
| posted on 22/11/08 at 12:08 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
The last 5 new cars bought by my family out here have been....Nissan, Mazda, Honda, Ford, Toyota......all bought based on the "best vehicle for
the requirement at the time" basis.....says a lot I think..
40% of them are Fords....
|
|
|
