Danozeman
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 08:24 AM |
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Young children in kit cars.
Whats the law regarding young children in our type of cars?
My daughter is nearly 3 and quite tall. If shes strapped in mar car she cant move anywhere. Obviously you cant use and dont need a booster seat
etc.
I have taken her round the block in it just to give her a ride. She had privilidge of first go when i got my plates.
Whats the legality in taking her in it?
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 08:28 AM |
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same as any other car?
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Humbug
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 08:30 AM |
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The law is quite clear: you need a booster seat for children aged 3 and above, until they reach EITHER their 12th birthday OR 135cm in height
I got the info confirmed here
EDIT: btw, why do you say you can't use a booster seat? I s'pose not in a Triton-style GRP shell seat...
[Edited on 18.02.2009 by Humbug]
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wrigglypig
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 08:39 AM |
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The law states that : Child from 3rd birthday up to 135cms in height (approx 4'5" (or 12th birthday whichever they reach first) then a
correct child restraint MUST be used in the front seat. Not an adult belt. therefore she can not travel in your car, there are different regs if it
had rear seats. See this site for more info. Kev
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/seatbelts.htm
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Wadders
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 08:45 AM |
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My pals little lad, used to be a regular passenger in his westfield, with a booster seat fitted. I don't think it was a problem fitting/removing
it.
Al.
Originally posted by Danozeman
Whats the law regarding young children in our type of cars?
My daughter is nearly 3 and quite tall. If shes strapped in mar car she cant move anywhere. Obviously you cant use and dont need a booster seat
etc.
I have taken her round the block in it just to give her a ride. She had privilidge of first go when i got my plates.
Whats the legality in taking her in it?
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whitestu
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 08:48 AM |
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I think you are mis-reading it. Use a booster seat and harness and you will comply with the law. A booster is the correct child restraint for a 3+
year old. All child seats for kids of this age use the adult belt [unless the child is very small].
'Where seat belts fitted, correct child restraint MUST be used. Must use adult belt if the correct child restraint is not
available:'
Stu
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Slater
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 10:25 AM |
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If you need to use a booster seat then the best option is to by one the the hard foam types (cycle helmit type material) approx £10, remove the cover
them trim it to fit your seat with a hacksaw/knife. Refit the cover. job done,
Why do they call Port Harcourt "The Garden City"?...... Becauase they can't spell Stramash.
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bigrich
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 10:34 AM |
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I'm pretty sure DarrenW has been into the legal side of this at some length, and has posted about it in the past. May be worth a search on the
subject
.JPG)
A pint for the gent and a white wine/fruit based drink for the lady. Those are the rules
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Fozzie
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 10:55 AM |
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I keep two like Slaters suggestion ^^ at home in the garage, and they are good. I have used them for the ankle biters from ages 3 1/2 to 11, and they
do the job.
An interesting discussion, whereby the law was bought in with production cars in mind, that is the use of diagonal seat belts.
The booster cushion is so the youngsters are able to use the diagonal seat belts with minimal chance of garotting/decapitation in an emergency stop
situation, as they are seated high enough to stop this happening.
However, in our cars, most have at least a 4 point harness which is akin to the fitments of the 'baby seats' that can be purchased,
although at least a 5 point would be better.
Providing that a booster seat is used, to raise the child so the harness fits in the 'right' places, and the harness's can be
adjusted enough to keep the child snug without the child slipping, I cannot see anything illegal about it.
I think a court would be hard pressed to deem that a harness safety belt adjusted correctly,was inferior to a diagonal belt/lap belt for which the law
was written.
All IMHO of course .... feel free to ignore etc etc
Fozzie 
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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nick205
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 11:14 AM |
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I've fitted a booster seat (and child) into my Indy with Intatrim ranger seats and it works fine. I would prefer 5 point harnesses (for myself
as well as the child) as submarining under the lap restraint is a possibility (but no more so than with a 3 point diagonal belt).
IMHO if you can correctly fit a suitable (legal) booster seat and secure the child firmly with the harnesses then you are complying with the
law IMHO
[Edited on 18/2/09 by nick205]
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James
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 11:19 AM |
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Due to slippery GRP seats, too far back placed lower seatbelt mounts (my bad design) and 4-point seat belts, I'm somewhat concerned about having
a front-ender in my Locost and 'submarineing' under the 4-points.
The belt then goes up into your chest and causes lots of damage! 
I would have thought this problem was far worse in someone as small as a 3-year old!
Cheers,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 11:56 AM |
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I went into a lot of detail on this a while back and lobbied the DoT over it. Tried all ways to get a more favourable answer (based on our cars having
harnessses when all of the guides cover diagonal belts).
Bottom line - you have to use booster seats. Such seats have compliance marks. Modifying said seats removes the compliance and they then arent within
the law (and in an accident such mods would go against you).
After a lot of searching i managed to find a booster that would fit the GRP seats (was a budget netto / lidl style seat). Only problem was that said
seat had a weight limit that is easily exceeded by young kids so even that is a grey area.
The powers that be even went on to say that if a booster seat couldnt be found that allowed the child to sit correctly in the car then they werent
allowed to travel in the car if you wanted to remain within the law.
Of course i cited taxi's and emergency rules regarding kids and cars - but no cigar! EG - the emergency law does not cover pre-arranged trips or
trips that could have been avoided. So you cant turn up at the school and offer your childs friend a lift home without the seat.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 12:40 PM |
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My kids travel in the Indy very infrequently and it certainly doesn't justify buying a booster seat specifically for it. I consider the four
point harness to be safe enough with my kids in the vehicle. I know this may be illegal in the eyes of the law but sometimes the law is an ass.
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stuart_g
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 12:43 PM |
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I take my son and daughter out in my car. My daughter is tall enough not to need a booster but my 8yr old son isn't and needs one. I cut the
polystyrene booster seat to shape to fit in the fiberglass seat. It fits very snug and does not move about, he is then restrained by the 4 point
harness.
With regards to submarining this would still happen in a tin top. The only way to stop it is to have a 5 point harness.
[Edited on 18/2/09 by stuart_g]
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catman
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| posted on 18/2/09 at 06:36 PM |
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i agree with all of the above but another concern of mine would be the noise so ear defenders would be good and goggles, a helmet is not good for
young kids as they can make things worse in a crash! Kids necks arnt strong enough, they can get very bad whip lash or worse with the extra weight. If
they are in a four point harness, they shouldnt be able to hit the dash any way.
just my thoughts as my daughter is three next month so ive been thinking this through.
Ed
caged supersix
Carbon/GRP
210 bhp silvertop
190 lbft
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Roman
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| posted on 19/2/09 at 10:52 AM |
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I quite often take my 4 year old out and she quite often falls asleep 
Use cheap booster seat from Aldi (cut to shape), 3 point harness and always run with passenger door in place. I drive like Miss Daisy and just enjoy
the time with my Daughter rather than having a 'blast'.
See always wears a pair of pink ear defenders and matching sun glasses. 
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DarrenW
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| posted on 19/2/09 at 12:15 PM |
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personally i dont see anything wrong with shaving a polystyrene booster to fit. i doubt the booster would fail in a crash. IIRC its sole purpose is to
put the belts in the correct position (or should that be put the kids in the right position for the belts).
My kids love going out in my car but i never go far and never too fast. Helmet not required but i do like them to wear a hat (take the sting off any
insects) and good goggles. I usually let them wear mine with the elastic. Those pink ear defenders look fantastic. My daughters sometimes wear there
cycling lids as well.
I think its all about risk management at the end of the day. I very much doubt that the majority of Police would raise question over the booster due
to the harnesses we use - but there is always one that would so i opt to use unmodified booster (only cos i found a narrow one that fits well).
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Fozzie
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| posted on 19/2/09 at 12:30 PM |
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The booster seat I keep at home I got from Tesco, it fitted in the Cobra Baby Cubs perfectly.
At the moment I have Tritons Wide Boys in the car, and for a perfect fit, a bit would have to be shaved off, but not much, I'm just being fussy,
as it does fit quite snugly as it is.
I have also got neoprene seat pads (diy), so slipping on shiny grp isn't an issue.
I always put a 'beanie' type hat on them along with irridescent safety glasses (which they think look cool).....I will invest in a pair of
those ear defenders though....
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 19/2/09 at 12:37 PM |
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Sort-of getting away from booster seats, but isn't there a risk of slim kids slipping out between the 2 vertical shoulder belts of a 4- or 5-way
harness?
[Edited on 19/2/09 by David Jenkins]
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Fozzie
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| posted on 19/2/09 at 01:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Sort-of getting away from booster sets, but isn't there a risk of slim kids slipping out between the 2 vertical shoulder belts of a 4- or 5-way
harness?
Yes ... that's why I said earlier, that IMHO, only if the harness's can be adjusted sufficiently....
.......'Providing that a booster seat is used, to raise the child so the harness fits in the 'right' places, and the harness's
can be adjusted enough to keep the child snug without the child slipping....'
Should it be contemplated........ IMHO
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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Vindi_andy
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| posted on 20/2/09 at 12:28 PM |
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The other option is the one i was forced to take by the other half and get a sprint family (waits for abuse) But the rear seat is falt so booster seat
fit fine and my eldest is tall enough not to need one and we can all go out together.
Will definately get some of those pink ear defenders and they have ski goggles with ballistic rated lenses
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