Mellow Matt
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 01:03 AM |
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Most reliable engines?
I'm looking at various BECs at the moment, and aside from knowing that the 'Blade engines are pretty bulletproof I don't know much
about the reliability others when they're put in cars. I've heard that perhaps ZZR engines aren't great, but they don't seem
very common anyway. I've also read people saying the GSXR engines can be unreliable. What about the R1? Which engines would people say are
reliable/unreliable?
Cheers 
(I realise a lot of it is down to maintenance etc, but I thought I'd see if there are any recommendations anyway!)
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 06:58 AM |
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don't forget to check up on the reliability of the gearbox as that's going to be under a lot more strain, unlike a CEC which usually is a
lot lighter than the donor.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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ReMan
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 07:12 AM |
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I think general concensus would deem the R1 the current successor to the Fireblade in the Cost/Popularity/Reliability/Simplicity stakes
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BenB
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:51 AM |
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I know it's not what most people call a BEC but a ST1100 / ST1200 engine is quite pleasing 
I've been for two blats in the last two days in mine and puts a silly big grin on my face each time!!
They go on for hundreds of thousands of miles without batting an eyelid.....
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:57 AM |
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I was going to say about Ben's pan engine.
As a general rule of thumb the most reliable engine are well looked after ones that aren't tuned.
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scootz
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 11:06 AM |
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It used to be Honda, Kawakawakasaki, Yamaha and Sooozoooki for engine build quality (best to not-best).
I'm guessing they'll all be much of a muchness now though.
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BenB
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 11:52 AM |
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The other good thing about a Pan is that the engine is mounted in the car as Mr Honda intended so no oil starvation problems on corners. Only issue is
the engine is quite tall so I'm running a bit of ride height at the front. I hope the have that removed soon courtesy of a dry sump (though I
really don't need to!! drives nicely as it is!!)....
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idl1975
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 12:06 PM |
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Matt
Basically, the big issue with BECs is always whether they will oil properly without a ton of work - whether that's baffling (can be fairly
simple - remove sump and fit a ready-made kit) or dry-sumping the engine (very few bikes run dry sumped). If they are oiling, they will run fine - in
fact, IMO, they should run better as they will be easier to cool with a car-sized rad and a shedload of space under a BEC's hood. Modern litre
bikes basically start cooking themselves as soon as the speed falls below 30mph. Try riding one in heavy traffic in mid-summer and you'll see!
Honda generally bear the laurels for build quality, although the most bulletproof gear-driven cam engines aren't usually used in BECs. The
original blade motor is famous for its durability in the original application - just change oil and filters and ride. Sort of like a Civic.
First year R1s ate their gearboxes - this was fixed pretty sharpish, but I'd be careful of anything powered by a '98 R1.
I would disagree with the statement above about the relative quality of the "big 4" manufacturers' powertrains. Aside from a minor
valvetrain issue with the new GSX-R mill in '96, Suzuki's fours are pretty much unburstable. The air/oil 1100 is pretty much the bike
world's Skyline straight 6, and used to be the performance engine of first resort, usually seen bored out to some ridiculous capacity and
featuring a turbo. No large capacity Japanese four in recent memory has any significant problems that I can think of - you just need to do valve
adjustments and change the oil. ZZRs are supposed to have evil bastard shim-under-bucket valve adjustment that requires an extra hand or two, and
Yamaha five-valve heads probably need clearances checking before the specified intervals, but that's about it.
The perceived quality distinction between Honda and the others, other than with respect to the gear-driven cam mills, was really based on fit, finish,
materials and corrosion resistance on the rest of the bike, where Honda was seen to do a much better job. This gap has narrowed or disappeared since
the later 90s, however, with Honda dropping the ball on some models ('954 and '929, famously) and the others raising their game.
quote:
Originally posted by Mellow Matt
I'm looking at various BECs at the moment, and aside from knowing that the 'Blade engines are pretty bulletproof I don't know much
about the reliability others when they're put in cars. I've heard that perhaps ZZR engines aren't great, but they don't seem
very common anyway. I've also read people saying the GSXR engines can be unreliable. What about the R1? Which engines would people say are
reliable/unreliable?
Cheers
(I realise a lot of it is down to maintenance etc, but I thought I'd see if there are any recommendations anyway!)
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 12:09 PM |
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My experience with racing using Honda Fireblade engines is that the gearbox is the weak link.
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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idl1975
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 12:18 PM |
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The ST sounds like a great choice. I'd like to see a Rocket III BEC, if just for the amusement value and rolling burnouts.
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
I know it's not what most people call a BEC but a ST1100 / ST1200 engine is quite pleasing
I've been for two blats in the last two days in mine and puts a silly big grin on my face each time!!
They go on for hundreds of thousands of miles without batting an eyelid.....
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 12:39 PM |
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Hi - whilst ALL BEC's suffer from Oil surge - none are infallible. Whether you like it or not a 'bike Engine mounted in a bike has the Oil
Fed from the lowest point in the sump - and whenever the bike is vertical or not the oil is constantly being pumped due to centrifugal force holding
the oil in the sump base. When mounted in a Car - this is obviously NOT the case therefore some degree of Oil Starvation will occur, whether or not it
will affect the engine is debaitable.
With regard to the ST Engine - I must question the source of the information to state it does 'hundreds of thousands of miles'... it seems
very unlikely that any bike engine (exc. BMW) that are designed to do that sort of mileage.
Steve
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afj
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 01:15 PM |
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we service an st with around 140,000 miles on bit of smoke on start-up but runs well
eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 01:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
With regard to the ST Engine - I must question the source of the information to state it does 'hundreds of thousands of miles'... it seems
very unlikely that any bike engine (exc. BMW) that are designed to do that sort of mileage.
Steve
I dont think they were designed to do 100k+, but they obviosuly do quite easily..
136k
147k
and many more with 80k+ on autotrader and the bay. wouldnt get that from a busa or blade.
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Mellow Matt
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 01:32 PM |
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Thanks for the replies all, lots of very good info. Thanks for the pretty comprehensive summary as well Ian! I should really have included the gearbox
as well in my original post, but forgot! I know all too well the possible fragility of bike 'boxes as my GSXR ('00 600 SRAD btw) is
currently jumping out of 2nd gear  (not through my own misuse I hasten to add!)
I'm looking at getting a 2nd hand BEC, so I've not encountered any ST engines yet! What do people think of the ZX9R engine/gearbox? That
seems a pretty popular choice, along with R1s and 'Blades.
[Edited on 3/3/09 by Mellow Matt]
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idl1975
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 02:53 PM |
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Remember that many younger drivers with no bike experience and no experience of non-synchro 'boxes (not referring specifically to the racer who
posted above) have no idea about rev matching on downshifts, or have been taught explicitly NOT to do it.
An hypothetical person of this disposition might build a BEC and bolt on some extra-strong barnett clutch springs and uprated friction plates. They
might then attach the whole kit and caboodle to a very heavy final drive assembly.
Finally, they might just wazz about the countryside dumping the (uprated) clutch on every downchange at about 6,000rpm.
Unsurprisingly, selector fork or gears (delete as applicable) give up the ghost at some point thereafter.
I think being used to a bike gearbox, you'll be able to coax a fair amount of life out of whatever you buy. 
quote:
Originally posted by Mellow Matt
Thanks for the replies all, lots of very good info. Thanks for the pretty comprehensive summary as well Ian! I should really have included the gearbox
as well in my original post, but forgot! I know all too well the possible fragility of bike 'boxes as my GSXR ('00 600 SRAD btw) is
currently jumping out of 2nd gear (not through my own misuse I hasten to add!)
I'm looking at getting a 2nd hand BEC, so I've not encountered any ST engines yet! What do people think of the ZX9R engine/gearbox? That
seems a pretty popular choice, along with R1s and 'Blades.
[Edited on 3/3/09 by Mellow Matt]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 06:20 PM |
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i had a zx9 r E engine in my old stuart taylor and it was very quick indeed.i believe the earlier zx9's had a week gearbox but in the
'E' engine is quite strong. i never had 1 single problem whatsoever.
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