pointy
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| posted on 17/3/09 at 09:50 AM |
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Locost rep snetterton report
Locost Racers,
I intend to do a small feedback report after each event, so firstly congratulations to Scott and Rhys for their victories in 2 very closely fought
races. Well done also too Richard Jenkins, Richard Dixon, Ed Pither and James Pinkerton for their podium positions, and not forgetting our first time
racers Simon Ironside, Campbell Cassidy and Max lees who I am sure feel relieved to get the first one done and dusted.
Scrutineers feedback was very positive praising the high standard of preparation of our cars. (lets keep it up throughout the season.)
As always please let me know your thoughts, and if I can be of any assistance you know my e-mail address.
See you at mallory.
Andy p
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evanschris
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| posted on 17/3/09 at 11:26 AM |
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So I am guessing there were no "ROPS" issues then?
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blackie
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| posted on 19/3/09 at 09:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by evanschris
So I am guessing there were no "ROPS" issues then?
I thought this had already been done to death!
This really isn't an issue that will be solved at a single race meeting, so I recommend you re-read the thread explaining the situation to
improve your understanding of it, because you give the impression (I'm sure by mistake) that you're just being argumentative.
The drivers, constructors, club & scrutes need to work together to resolve this & as I'm sure you appreciate this will not be resolved
to anyones benefit by suddenly excluding a load of cars due to cage irregularities.
As a driver & someone passionate about our formula, I'd really appreciate you taking more care not to post argumentative statements (or
statements that can be construed as argumentative) because this helps none of us in the long run.
Thank you.
Dave Black #28
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pointy
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| posted on 19/3/09 at 10:46 AM |
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This is the last time I shall post on this subject.
The scrutineers will have the FINAL say on roll cages.
They know the rules and are fully aware of the on going discussions.
PLEASE, PLEASE can we focus on the 2009 Locost racing season.
Andy P.
[Edited on 19/3/09 by pointy]
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 19/3/09 at 01:40 PM |
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Dave & Andy
I think you might be over-reacting a little there. Not everyone is aware of the details of the roll cage issues and Chris's post could easily
have been perfectly innocent.
Personally I have heard more than some and yet I was still unsure what I would face when I turned up at Scrutineering at the weekend. Fortunately I
spoke to Matt G at some length and I am now suitably reassured. As I see it a key part of the whole problem has been that the rules - specifically as
they are understood / interpreted by the scrutineers and the MSA - are not well documented nor communicated to competitors. Obviously deliberately
inflammatory comments by people are not constructive, but we can't use that as justification for stifling further dissemination of the actual
regulations.
I would also argue that it is very much a subject pertinent for people building (or re-building) to the 2009 racing regulations or for next season and
so is definitely a valid topic for discussion on here (though in the Race Issues section, strictly speaking).
Cheers
Rob
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simes43
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| posted on 19/3/09 at 02:25 PM |
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evanschris
Keep asking for status, as Rob says there will be others who need to be updated due to the position of their car build.
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evanschris
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| posted on 19/3/09 at 02:56 PM |
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It was a genuine question - are those who have already invested in Caged kits or intend build using one ,like myself, going to pass scutineering. On
the one hand Brian M ,Caged and others have said that there is no issue (providing of course that the welding is to a sufficient standard(evidenced by
photograph/cut through on a sample weld). On the other hand it appears to me that one of the other ROPS vendors is trying to protect his business,
which he is entitled to do, by casting aspertions as to the eligibility of a great deal of the field who have gone down the Caged/kit route. I want a
straight answer before I go any further with my build.
Secondly as far as I am aware I have not contravened any of the forum rules with my post - if I have than I am happy to remove it. What you seem to be
saying is dont ask an awkward question on here. Unfortunately the nature of a forum is that it is open to all providing we keep within the rules .
Thirdly I am not trolling - I am mid way through building a new car to re-join in the series at some time.
Finally as this has been "done to death" perhaps someone could be good enough to let me know what the current state of play is? I
havn't got a clue.
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blackie
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| posted on 19/3/09 at 05:30 PM |
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for those builders looking to buy cages now, I offer you the following advice
If you're buying a cage that requires a certificate & identification label (ie. Caged / Procomp) there is a list of approved installers on
the certification document itself (which is a multi-page document).
In the case of the Procomp cage (which is on my car) the only approved installers are Procomp themselves.
As I cant speak for the Caged certificate, anyone going the Caged route should check the cert to ensure their chosen installer is on there. If you
stick to the approved installer list on the cert, then you have no problems.
You're absolutely right to ask any question on the forum, that's what it's here for. By "done to death", I refer to
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=106949
HTH
ATB
DB
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 19/3/09 at 08:52 PM |
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Arrrgh, I committed the cardinal sin of a double post. Sorry about that.
I disagree that the issue has been "done to death". I was heavily involved in that linked thread and still had to go and seek
clarification at the race meeting because the information published here did not clarify matters sufficiently.
Having got that clarification at Snetterton I am a little happier but I still find the rules *as published by the MSA in their reference document, the
Blue Book* to be insufficient.
What's more, they aren't consistent with what's happening in other categories - there still lies an open question as to why
companies like OMP and Custom Cages sell self-assembly or self-installation roll cage kits in the UK (c.f. Demon Tweeks 2009 catalogue pages 186-189)
when the interpretation of the MSA regulations that's been discussed here makes this specifically illegal.
Reportedly the MSA say their position has been unchanged for years but these manufacturers have also been selling these kits for years so
shouldn't someone have pointed out to them that what they're doing is implicitly illegal?
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Custardtart
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| posted on 20/3/09 at 07:24 AM |
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Illegal is a strong word, ineligible probably sits nearer the mark?
They're only noodles
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 20/3/09 at 08:34 AM |
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Well it wasn't me that first used it, but I agree, "ineligible" is perhaps better. "Illegal" has wider connotations
than are involved here.
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blackie
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| posted on 20/3/09 at 11:32 AM |
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Rob, owners of existing cages are in a different boat to our newbie here.
For evanschris & others looking to buy a new cage for racing the situation is as I described it. I think this is pretty clear. If it's
not, post a question.
The situation with the existing cages is another issue that needs further clarification. As Andy P has already indicated that he's holding a
meeting of the drivers comittee at Mallory, I suggest that this is discussed in this forum.
Hopefully this will start a chain of events leading to a statement informing owners of existing cages where they stand. Beyond that, I dont believe
further debate of this topic on this forum is moving the issue on at all right now, but of course this is a public forum, so proceed if you wish!!
Cheers,
DB
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evanschris
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| posted on 20/3/09 at 12:32 PM |
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Sorry to sound thick - I have bought a cage( more than 12 months ago ) as a kit(caged). It has not been fitted. Could someone confirm who can fit it
to the car?
[Edited on 20/3/09 by evanschris]
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simes43
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| posted on 20/3/09 at 02:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by evanschris
Sorry to sound thick - I have bought a cage( more than 12 months ago ) as a kit(caged). It has not been fitted. Could someone confirm who can fit it
to the car?
[Edited on 20/3/09 by evanschris]
God? Or pm me your number.
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blackie
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| posted on 20/3/09 at 05:01 PM |
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evanschris - talk to Caged. Get (or at least view) a copy of the complete ROPS certification document from them. This document identifies the
authorised fitters of the cage for race use.
If God is on the list, I'd go with him, I hear he's a demon welder!!
All the best,
DB
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 20/3/09 at 07:26 PM |
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Well I think the continued discussion here has indeed yielded some additional information and clarification for those not privvy to the details direct
from the people involved.
We still await formal communication of the conclusions back from the club / MSA but this whole episode has been a mess, in my opinion, and I suspect
that won't get much better when the actual regulations that are being applied are properly revealed to us.
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