cd.thomson
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:28 AM |
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kit car break downs and problems
Why is it that there are always so many breakdown/problem threads on here from people with fully built cars? Considering the mileage they do even the
nontracked kits seem to have lists of problems to be dealt with every summer.
Do we build them badly? The friends I have with kits are always complaining of misfires, sucking this/blowing that, lack of spark, misfueling etcetc.
Why are they so troublesome!?
Craig
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balidey
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:32 AM |
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You hear about these problems. You don't get to hear about the 'lack of problems'
ie 100 people with car X, if 10 have problems with an item, and each of them posts on the internet, suddenly its a common fault. But what about the 90
people who don't have the problems.
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paul the 6th
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:33 AM |
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it's the 50-50-90 rule.
If there's a 50/50 chance of something going wrong, 90% of the time it will 
GoDesign.me.uk - Self Adhesive Vinyl Artwork, Wide Format Printed Artwork and Customised Heat
Pressed Clothing...
--------
http://picasaweb.google.com/haynesroadster - Roadster Photo Build Log
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:40 AM |
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manufacturers spend umpteen millions trying to make their cars' systems reliable and not prone to breakdowns...
...but even then, things go wrong.
We cobble together bits & pieces from all over the place, and still manage to be reasonably reliable. I don't us car builders do too badly.
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Guinness
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:40 AM |
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IMHO, most cars on here were built on the following basis:-
- It was the first car they'd ever built
- It was done on a budget
- Some of the parts were second hand
- There was no comprehensive manual
Combine that with (normally) zero testing mileage and a development budget of less than £0.
This meant that my car got on the road first, then the faults that I'd built in became apparent. It passed SVA ok but that isn't the same
as the design / development process that say Volvo follow!
Even if you are using all brand new parts, I can almost guarentee that some parts won't be right / will be a compromise.
Bear in mind that what looks perfectly OK on the car standing still in the garage can be a completely different proposition on a wet trackday!
Mike
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:41 AM |
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our cars are made of bits from a number of different cars, radiators from volkwagens, ford axles, bike engines/vauxhall engines and ford gearboxes etc
etc. they haven't had the millions of £s of R&D spent on them i guess.
plus i guess a ford factory for examlple will build more cars in 2 months than everyone on this site will ever build, they've had a fair bit
more practise (and use all brand new parts too
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:46 AM |
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I dont buy the £X spent on R&D thing, all the really nittygritty things we just rip off from these major manufacturers, we're not expected
to design diffs/blueprint engines/model uprights.
"we" have been using sierra donors (etc) for years now to specifically build these types of cars. Also this is only anecdotal but the
problems are with things like overheating/distributors/enginey stuff which is out our hands to a certain extent. Its almost like the parts are only
playing up because theyre in a kit!
Craig
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 11:57 AM |
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We do tend to use stuff in environments they weren't intended for, connected to stuff that's hand-made or from a different manufacturer,
plumbed/wired in ways that they never intended - it's a wonder that anything works!
For example, on my car, I have an engine from an automatic Mk 2 Escort, a gearbox from a Sierra, a made-to-measure propshaft and an Escort rear axle
with all it's original brackets ground off and new ones added. The engine's plumbed to a VW Polo radiator and the ignition system's
been thrown away and replaced with a home-made mappable one (MJ). I originally had a Sierra Weber carb, but that's been replaced with 4 from a
Honda CBR600 motorbike.
And it still works well! 
(touch wood...)
[Edited on 18/6/09 by David Jenkins]
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smart51
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:09 PM |
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I thought it was just me. Some of my car's failures were due to me not building it right. Some were due to metal parts of the car failing (I
bought the chassis I didn't make it). Some were due to using old parts (the sierra diff leaked through the nose along the spline, the yamaha
cam chain tensioner probably just got old). Some were unexplained, like the bottom end bearings going. Some were because the parts were modified,
the carb hole bung up goo came off after a couple of years.
During my car ownership I had to fix the half shaft, the diff, the prop, the gearbox, the engine, the carbs, a chassis bracket, two cycle wing
brackets, a steering column bush, an indicator mount, a coolant hose, an exhaust weld failure, a seatbelt failure, a seat runner failure, dodgy wiring
to a temperature sensor, poor headlight beam, diff bolts that broke, a brake pressure sensor that stopped working. Bakes that needed to be bled due
to very low effort. A brake calliper that siezed. A gear shift cable that snapped, a throttle cable that frayed. And I needed a new bonnet when the
old one flew off. There was always something that needed doing. When it all worked all at the same time, it was glorious. Its like Clarkeson is
always saying about Alfas. You have to suffer the pain to experience the joy.
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mediabloke
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:09 PM |
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I guess it's human-nature too: you'll put up with a niggle on your daily-driver, but we all want our projects to be the best that they
can. Be it pride, experience or whatever.
Plus, I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to drive my tintop much less "vigorously" than I ever do my Indy.
Francis
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mcerd1
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:13 PM |
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Craig,
I'm tring to avoid future breakdowns by having everything either new or fully reconditioned
trouble is it takes forever and costs a fortune to build it
-Robert
[Edited on 18/6/09 by mcerd1]
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Its almost like the parts are only playing up because theyre in a kit!
In my case that's exactly what is happening - I am having overheating problems because my Rover V8 engine is crammed into an engine bay more
suited to a 1.3 Ford x-flow and I am using a Polo radiator more suited to a...well a Polo in fact... The Polo rad has been used on engines with more
BHP than mine without issues but I rather suspect that the issue in my case is more to do with the constraints of the kit car engine bay which forced
me to have my top hose going downhill from engine to radiator and to use a water pump from a Rover P6 which isn't as efficient.
I think another issue is that we as builders tend to be more critical if we feel or hear something "not quite right". We can't help
but tinker with it and often make it worse before it gets better. We also tend to get bored once the initial build has finished and start
"upgrading" stuff.
It's all part of the journey in my view and it won't end until you sell the car and take up another pastime.
Cheers,
Craig.
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smart51
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mediabloke
I tend to drive my tintop much less "vigorously" than I ever do my Indy.
Yup, that would be it. My Peugeot is driven quite gently. The vortx, well, why would you build a fast car and never take it over half revs?
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:20 PM |
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So concensus is that we're not very good at building cars that are created from parts that shouldn't be used 
Craig
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:23 PM |
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I think that sums it up very neatly!
It's actually amazing what we do achieve, especially looking at the amazing stuff that the members of this forum produce.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:34 PM |
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depends on how much duck tape is holding it togeather
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 12:43 PM |
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Looks like im going to have a very reliable car then. All the running gear is from the donor
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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adithorp
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 01:02 PM |
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It's a combination of things.
Second hand parts and parts mated together with others that they weren't designed to fit to, along with other "hardwear" problems
all lead to failures. But is only part of the problem.
Most don't have all the skills required to not only fit the parts but also to design how they fit. Occationally changing the oil or tackling a
timing belt change is not the same as building a car. I've been repairing cars for a living for 30 years. Some of the problems that people have
are just second nature to me but it took all that time to get that way. I still get stumped every week with problems I've never seen before;
What chance does that give amateurs. Experience of seeing hundreds of failures (and poor design by manufacturers) influenced the way I built my car
and so I avoided most of the pitfalls others have (understandably) made...but I still made some!
Throughout my build I came across stuff I didn't know. I never knew the wiring set up for a hazard light, in order to make it not be affected by
the indicators for examply; I didn't need to, untill I came to make a wiring loom. That held me up because I had the skills but not the specific
knowledge.
That someone with only basic (or none in some cases) maintenence experience can build a car from scratch is amazing to me!
...and if the odd bit has teething problems is that a surprise?
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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iank
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Looks like im going to have a very reliable car then. All the running gear is from the donor
How reliable are 23 year old Jags?
(or escorts/sierras/whatever)
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Benzine
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 01:27 PM |
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I never fully broke down when my MK was on the road (i.e. needed to be towed/picked up) My water pump belt came off so I drove about half a mile,
turned engine off and coasted for as long as I could before starting again (hilly quiet roads with no traffic at all) and repeating. I kept an eye on
the water gauge and it was fine, got home and fixed it ^_^
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 02:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Looks like im going to have a very reliable car then. All the running gear is from the donor
How reliable are 23 year old Jags?
More reliable than a locost
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 02:04 PM |
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mine has been reliable with just small things going haywire.
The radiator switch died (was brand new)
fan didnt help was also new
and the rad cap is too low in pressure so we got a new one and its not worked.......
The bracket holding the exhaust broke but we had wacked it going on to the trailer so it was always a suspect.
All the stuff thats fooked up has been new.
Ps my car was driven down to stoneleigh a day after registration and has been up to the north of scotland as well with out missing a beat.......
the headlamp bulb blew but thats consumables
[Edited on 18-6-09 by mangogrooveworkshop]
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iscmatt
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 02:16 PM |
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I am all of these
It was the first car they'd ever built
It was done on a budget
Some of the parts were second hand
There was no comprehensive manual
But my car hasn't missed a beat for 2 years now! i cant believe that there hasn't been one major breakdown or issue, maybe thats because i
couldn't get it started at the very start so i spent a lot of time checking things on the engine and so seems pretty much perfect now!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 02:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mediabloke
I guess it's human-nature too: you'll put up with a niggle on your daily-driver, but we all want our projects to be the best that they
can. Be it pride, experience or whatever.
I don't put up with any 'niggles' on my daily driver (as some of you know by now )
[Edited on 18/6/09 by mcerd1]
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flak monkey
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| posted on 18/6/09 at 03:00 PM |
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I only broke down once in 5500miles and that was only because the alternator siezed up (forgot to change the bearings before i fitted it...). Other
than that, no problems to report
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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