Alan B
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 04:31 PM |
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Aerodynamically unsurpassed...
or over-hyped?
I don't know enough about aero to comment myself......
Not entirely convinced the lights are at a legal height either...mmm?
Attack spec
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MazdaJim
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 06:29 PM |
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Notice they dont give a Cd number. Those illustrations there are just....illustrations. If they want credibility they should show some
graphical results from a CFD run.
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kb58
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 07:05 PM |
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Oh come on, their "aero spec" is summed up by:
"The aerodynamics of the front and bottom of the Attack are extremely complicated."
What more could you want to know? After reading that I'm impressed, where do I order...
Regrading the headlight height, it's like I said several times over there (and get flamed), it isn't the manufacturer's problem.
Like their non-DOT approved gas tank (a emissions landmine for the owner,) the lamp height will also cause problems. It's disappointing kitcar
manufacturers conveniently neglect to mention such "unattractive" details. The reality is that it *is* important and can make the car
illegal to drive. I didn't bother to check if they have a disclaimer... Having said that, and partly in their defense, there's no way
they can know all the emissions and vehicle codes for every country, BUT it *is* their responsibility to make that very clear to a potential owner
that they must check their local rules. I wonder if they always point that out.
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pbura
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 07:06 PM |
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Hype, for sure.
Not that the car isn't aerodynamic just by virtue of its shape and having a spoiler and extractor. Sure it's aerodynamic compared to many
cars. But from there the hype takes over. "Hey, Yorgi, let's talk about how aerodynamic the car is!", and they bring on the
superlatives.
Seeing as Slovakia hasn't had a capitalistic economy for too long, I'm sure that the commercial advertising laws there are pretty slack.
 Got to hand it to them, starting up an international business.
I think they're pretty comical, with their world-reknowned (but unnamed) Master Designer and specially-developed this and that.
Doesn't seem a bad car, though, not that I'd want one (too flashy).
"Are this tubes more like machine guns... or like rocket jets to you?"
Pete
Pete
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Alan B
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 07:13 PM |
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I've actually joined the forum.....
Not for a major flame war, but to discuss commom issues.....compliance (as per KB's points above)....registration, insurance etc....
I'll keep you posted..
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kb58
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 07:19 PM |
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Reading their new improved FAQ, I see they removed the one regarding suspension travel, where they used to say it was 1.5" of travel. That was
later claimed to be a typo, that it is really 6". Wonder why the typo wasn't simply corrected instead of removing the entire topic. So
we're back to wondering what the suspension travel really is...
So much of the "specs" are just a bunch of words that don't say anything.
Time for my pill...
[Edited on 12/3/04 by kb58]
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kb58
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 07:21 PM |
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So Alan, what's your screen name over there. Maybe we could get in "arguments" for fun.... maybe not...
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MazdaJim
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 07:23 PM |
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As far as I'm concerned their entire website was written by and for mouth-breathing victims of the American education system.
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Alan B
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 07:24 PM |
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It's really creative....
meerkat....
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suparuss
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 08:37 PM |
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i didnt think such a heavy car would need to be unsurpassed in aerodynamics? gravity should give it all the grip it needs! 
the fact that all of their claims as to its superiority over other cars is not backed up by actual test data worries me.
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ProjectLMP
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 08:41 PM |
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Well, given that most street cars generate nothing but lift (even including Porsches and most Ferraris), I doubt that this car is any different. They
make a big fuss about how much front downforce is generated. Its easy to make front downforce on a sedan with a big splitter or spoiler. The hard part
is to generate enough downforce at the back to balance it. The big problem is you just can't tell how good a car is aerodynamically by looking
at it. Even CFD can be misleading. The true test is on the road or in a wind tunnel.
I think the attack is very nicely done for a kitcar (at least the styling). The problem is that it seems to attract mindless lemmings who believe
every piece of marketing thrown at them.
Home of the Astronomicalcost Mid engined LMP project
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Alan B
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 09:24 PM |
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Syd,
I get a feeling that they are a decent, genuine company.....I've seen ltd used over here to give companies a sort of "Euro"
feel...the guy who owns them is on the forum sharing his development pictures for the install of a different engine...
I did get a dodgy feeling early on when it was just the East european deal...but not now.
I think LMP sums it nicely in his last sentence...
"I think the attack is very nicely done for a kitcar (at least the styling). The problem is that it seems to attract mindless lemmings who
believe every piece of marketing thrown at them"
It appears that kits have been delivered and are being built....however I don't know if any are actually on the road....
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kb58
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 09:35 PM |
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Yeah, it's not the car itself, it's the marketing approach. I agree it is a very good looking car, it's just how specifics on the
car are wrong, missing, or vague that make it hard to determine exactly what a buyer is getting.
[Edited on 12/3/04 by kb58]
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pbura
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 09:48 PM |
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In the US, 'Ltd.' can denote a limited liability company (often just one owner) or partnership. In does have a bit more panache than
'LLC' or 'LLP' after the name.
I believe that in the UK (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) 'Ltd.' refers to a corporation, or stock company. In the US,
a corporation may use 'Ltd.' in the name, but must further add 'Corp.' or 'Inc.'
Just a little (yawn) Friday trivia
Pete
Pete
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robinbastd
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| posted on 12/3/04 at 10:15 PM |
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There's a clue on their web page.......look for the little red dot,and next to it it says"hot air"
I rest my case m'lud
Ian
Only a dead fish swims with the tide.
http://smuttygifts.com/
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violentblue
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 02:00 AM |
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I just incorperated my company, when doing it I had the option of inc. or ltd.
they mean the same thing here, one being the US preferance the other British (so I'm told)
and since we're all somewhat confused here in Canada, whether we're part of the Commonwelth or a protectorate of the US, we use both
interchangably
a few pics of my other projects
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pbura
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 12:05 PM |
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quote:
The 'ltd' must be new since I worked over there
Yes, the limited liability company is a new-ish invention within the last 10 years or so. It gives unincorporated businesses (proprietorships and
partnerships) the same protection from liability as a corporation.
Before that, some (unincorporated) companies used 'Ltd.' because it sounded 'cool', but had no legal meaning in the US.
Syd, you were SOL (shite outta luck) because your business was incorporated.
Pete
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sgraber
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 10:53 PM |
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You guys sure do give those Attack fellows a hard time! I know that they have made some minor marketing mistakes, catering to the "grade 6
level" mentality.
But looking past all the hype that's managed to build up (quite possibly out of their control somewhat) I think that they really do have a
solid product.
Although I don't particularly like cars as gaudy as the Attack, I have to believe that from a manufacturers perspective they have really taken
the time to develop a pretty complete package. Just look at all the finish pieces and detail! I have also seen some of their other kits at shows and
the quality of the fiberglass is excellent.
I say more power to 'em. There should be MORE mid-engine kits of that caliber available.
I think what's happened is that their forum was over-run by a young-ish tuner crowd and now they tailor their marketing to that level. IMHO they
should definitely get the hype and spin monster under control. We just want the facts mister!
Just my .000002 cents.
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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imull
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| posted on 23/3/04 at 12:05 PM |
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looks nice but its been a while since I had the pleasure of reading such a load of crap
Hot air - eh? That seems to be showing parts of the body work.
The amount of curvature in the air flow on around that front splitter is laughable. Thats why they invented multi element wings.
The diagram also shows the splitter causing the air to stall and separate pretty much from the outset. This means bugger all lift and loads of
drag.
Flat bottom. woo hoo. That will provide virtually no downforce on its own. And as for a vacuum, yeah right, may accidentally get a slight drop in
pressure, but if the air has already stalled on the splitter then it will be at a low energy state and all its properties will work against drag
reduction and downforce.
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crbrlfrost
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| posted on 25/3/04 at 02:29 AM |
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It is definitely a nice looking car, and I would probably go as far as saying descently engineered for a kit vehicle. As far as the front end creating
large amounts of downforce, I would be rather dubious, and ditto for the rear. The splitter should be relatively effective, but the added kick-up
behind it is probably useless, as is a perfectly flat floor without proper approach design and diffusers. Oh well, looks nice.
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kb58
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| posted on 25/3/04 at 10:11 PM |
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I think most here agree it looks nice. What's lame are the "specifications," which contains few actual facts. About the only
believable numbers are the dimensions. Everything else is, as my ex-boss used to call it, "a major spew," lots of words but no substance.
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drmike54
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| posted on 21/4/04 at 08:46 PM |
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Attack
A lot of pictures from a Drag Strip here in Ohio but no real test data.
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kb58
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| posted on 22/4/04 at 02:36 AM |
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They excel at lots of words and hand waving, but there's little to no actual data anywhere.
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