beaver34
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 12:25 PM |
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supercharged
any one running a supercharged engine on here,or have fitted one to an engine, if so what and how is it, thanks
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widz
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 12:36 PM |
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just fitted rotrex supercharger on my dax rush hayabusa covered 1400 miles 250 bhp approx it runs very smooth tons of grunt
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 12:36 PM |
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"bimbleuk" on here is using a toyota 4age with a rotrex supercharger fitted.
Mk sportscars ran a supercharged GSXR1000 demo car last year,rapid but not very reliable.
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beaver34
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 12:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by widz
just fitted rotrex supercharger on my dax rush hayabusa covered 1400 miles 250 bhp approx it runs very smooth tons of grunt
what have you done engine mod wise, do you run an intercooler?
thanks
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widz
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 12:46 PM |
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fitted spacer plate under barrel first regrind cams 440 injecters cosworth intercooler dynojet ignition module car has been great never missed a beat
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jpindy3
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 02:49 PM |
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always run a intercooler if you dont its a good chance it will go bang
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beaver34
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 02:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jpindy3
always run a intercooler if you dont its a good chance it will go bang
what from warmer air entering the engine?
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omega0684
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 04:30 PM |
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on any forced air induction system you want to keep the air going into the engine as cool as possible! so its better to run an intercooler as air
under pressure is warmer the air not under pressure!
[Edited on 12/7/09 by omega0684]
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beaver34
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 04:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
on any forced air induction system you want to keep the air going into the engine as cool as possible! so its better to run an intercooler as air
under pressure is warmer the air not under pressure!
[Edited on 12/7/09 by omega0684]
im aware of this, but there are plenty of car that run f/i that run without them, they dont blow up,
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 04:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
quote:
Originally posted by jpindy3
always run a intercooler if you dont its a good chance it will go bang
what from warmer air entering the engine?
Lol, I thought that.
Although the air under pressure is slightly warmer than that not under pressure, its velocity is greater, so as long as the intake is not sucking in
engine Pre-heated air, then the problem solves itself.
Intercoolers are known to increase the power output of supercharged engines, but if the engine intake receives cool air by design, then an intercooler
is not absolutely necessary.
I wouldnt have said that it would make an engine go bang just because an engine doesnt have one, but it will make it run hotter. There are things you
can do to combat this though, which are cheaper than an intercooler, short term. A lower temp thermostat is one way.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 12/7/09 at 06:42 PM |
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Sounds like a bonnet scoop would be a nice idea 
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djtom
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| posted on 13/7/09 at 04:30 PM |
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Lol, I thought that.
Although the air under pressure is slightly warmer than that not under pressure, its velocity is greater, so as long as the intake is not sucking in
engine Pre-heated air, then the problem solves itself.
Intercoolers are known to increase the power output of supercharged engines, but if the engine intake receives cool air by design, then an intercooler
is not absolutely necessary.
I wouldnt have said that it would make an engine go bang just because an engine doesnt have one, but it will make it run hotter. There are things you
can do to combat this though, which are cheaper than an intercooler, short term. A lower temp thermostat is one way.
A couple of points:
To correct the first statement above, air VELOCITY has no effect on air TEMPERATURE. Without an intercooler, the compressed air entering the
combustion chamber will be hotter (regardless of how fast this air is moving) than the uncompressed air entering the supercharger.
At any reasonable level of boost the air exiting the supercharger will be a LOT hotter than the air going in due to the fact that you have compressed
the air to a fraction of its former volume - remember the ideal gas law from school (pV=nRT) - you can't beat the laws of thermodynamics!
The primary thing that an intercooler is used for is to cool the inlet charge air to guard against detonation (i.e. uncontrolled pre-ignition of the
inlet charge), as cold charge air is much better at resisting detonation than hot charge air. Detonation is a very quick way of killing an engine,
either by melting the piston tops or by causing significant bearing damage through the increased and sudden loadings on the bearings.
An intercooler will also have a beneficial effect on power as hot air has a significantly lower density than cold air - therefore the cold air will
result in more oxygen being available in the combustion chamber.
While I agree completely that an intercooler will certainly assist in lowering overall engine temperatures, it is not the primary reason for which
they are installed.
And while I agree that in some cases having an intercooler is not strictly necessary (like in very low boost applications with an efficient super /
turbocharger), in order to extract any real performance gains it will be necessary to fit one. In addition, by fitting one you will be running the
engine further away from its absolute limits, which will give you more scope for warning of when things are going wrong before serious damage
occurs.
Tom
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 13/7/09 at 04:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
on any forced air induction system you want to keep the air going into the engine as cool as possible! so its better to run an intercooler as air
under pressure is warmer the air not under pressure!
[Edited on 12/7/09 by omega0684]
im aware of this, but there are plenty of car that run f/i that run without them, they dont blow up,
Petrol engines running forced induction without intercooling will typically be running very low boost levels. I can't think of any modern
super/turbocharged performance car that doesn't use some form of intercooling to be honest.
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flibble
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| posted on 13/7/09 at 05:48 PM |
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When I bodged a supercharger onto my mx6 I had no intercooler, at only 6-7psi it was ok, any more and things would have started to melt, after a lot
of flat out runs you could feel the heat in the pipes so even that low boost was probably asking for a meltdown :\
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beaver34
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| posted on 13/7/09 at 06:00 PM |
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im not sayin i wouldnt need an intercooler, i will run one, also engine will run on omex managment so fueling is taken care of
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C10CoryM
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| posted on 15/7/09 at 08:49 PM |
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I've a factory supercharged V6 with no intercooler. Mine isn't running yet, but theres thousands of these engines out there running just
fine.
That being said, you would be silly to not put a intercooler in if possible. You gain a lot more power potential and do it safer.
For example, a car I helped build (383ci +15psi boost) used a centrifugal blower and 2 air/air intercoolers. It was able to lower the air charge
below the air intake temp which allowed for a LOT more power.
And Tom is correct. Any time you compress air you make heat and lots of it. You get about 15-18F increase of temp in the air charge for every 1psi
of boost added. Touch the head of your air compressor next time its running and see how hot it is.
"Our watchword evermore shall be: The Maple Leaf Forever!"
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 17/7/09 at 01:49 PM |
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I have been playing with superchargers since the mid 90s, all Toyota engines up till now.
I think your enquiry is too broad so you would be better off investing in a decent book such as "Superchared" by Corky Bell and do some
reading initially to get a good grounding.
I've built up a lot of practical experience as well as reading countless posts on forums, some useful, but mostly second hand info. So if I
started posting about my projects and experiences I could go on for days!
You mentioned using an OMEX ECU well they have a lot of experience with forced induction and specifically the Rotrex as they are a reseller. So
there's as good a reason as any to consider the Rotrex as a base. However the initial purchase price of the Rotrex puts a lot of people off.
Link to Supercharged
[Edited on 17-7-09 by bimbleuk]
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 17/7/09 at 06:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by C10CoryM
Touch the head of your air compressor next time its running and see how hot it is.
I'm getting an image of it being a cheap way to remove your fingerprints 
I've heard they get up to 200 degrees, iirc...
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beaver34
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| posted on 17/7/09 at 06:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bimbleuk
I have been playing with superchargers since the mid 90s, all Toyota engines up till now.
I think your enquiry is too broad so you would be better off investing in a decent book such as "Superchared" by Corky Bell and do some
reading initially to get a good grounding.
I've built up a lot of practical experience as well as reading countless posts on forums, some useful, but mostly second hand info. So if I
started posting about my projects and experiences I could go on for days!
You mentioned using an OMEX ECU well they have a lot of experience with forced induction and specifically the Rotrex as they are a reseller. So
there's as good a reason as any to consider the Rotrex as a base. However the initial purchase price of the Rotrex puts a lot of people off.
Link to Supercharged
[Edited on 17-7-09 by bimbleuk]
thanks, i am looking at there rotrex kits, ive found so fdar that you get what you pay for normaly, its a duratec engine i will be using, going to get
that book and study it before i start, thanks al
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 18/7/09 at 05:10 AM |
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Hmm Rotrex + Duratec and you're using an OMEX well you have chosen a good combo because that's exactly what OMEX have been playing with
for a while now. They were commissioned to produce a kit for one of the top manufacturers and have basically spent a year doing this.
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goaty
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| posted on 18/7/09 at 08:41 AM |
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thats handy.
This is exactly what i am building too.
My pistions and rods are on order so waiting for there arrival. Gotta start finding bits so i can think about dropping it in for the winter....Be
handy having someone else building one at the same time
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goaty
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| posted on 19/7/09 at 01:38 PM |
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just to change this a little bit, but what would be a better intake set-up??
Manifold witha single large TB on it running a map sensor most likely.
OR
ITB's with a plenum to pipe it up...but how wellw ould thi swork and what sort of metering would be used??
I know the Nissan Pulsar's run this set up, jst not sure how exactly.....
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beaver34
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| posted on 19/7/09 at 04:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by goaty
thats handy.
This is exactly what i am building too.
My pistions and rods are on order so waiting for there arrival. Gotta start finding bits so i can think about dropping it in for the winter....Be
handy having someone else building one at the same time
i have an issues with supercharging with the steering colum on mine, as the car is LHD, what pistons and rods are you suing, i was going to run on
stock internals
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beaver34
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| posted on 19/7/09 at 04:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bimbleuk
Hmm Rotrex + Duratec and you're using an OMEX well you have chosen a good combo because that's exactly what OMEX have been playing with
for a while now. They were commissioned to produce a kit for one of the top manufacturers and have basically spent a year doing this.
yeah ive spoke to the guys at omex, also the guys at jamsport do off the shelf kits for rwd fitment, they alod do the cosworth inlet's for rwd
fitment too, which look quite good
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goaty
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| posted on 20/7/09 at 06:41 AM |
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i am using Wossner forged low comp pistons and steel rods. going 1mm oversize too.
As for the cossy inlets, they seem quite expensive so i will prob modify or make something else fit.
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