MikeFellows
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 10:36 AM |
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which Busa Engine and dry sump or not>
argh!
which engine should i be buying (<02, 02-08, 08+)
everyone i speaks to tells me a different thing and eveyone has there opinions on running a dry sump or not
budget for the engine is £3k
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ReMan
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 10:41 AM |
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General concensus is that these should be dry sumped for use in a car.
Whilst there will be some that don't and get away with it, the main incentive is protecting your investment surely?
Fireblades and R1's can be replaced for £500, would you want to put a £3000 engine to chance?
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nick205
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 10:41 AM |
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I would speak direct to Malc @ Yorshire Engines - a member on here.
He's likely to be your best source of info and actual engines.
NTDWM by the way, he just seems to be the man in the know.
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 10:49 AM |
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i have and thats again partly why i have conflicting information
mk tell me that 08 engines are best (they are building 2 or 3 with them at the moment) they also tell me they see more dry sumped engines go bang than
baffled sump engines.
Malc tells me that he has seen 4 08 busa engines go bang for no apparent reason.
so i really dont know what to buy
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sucksqueezebangblow
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 11:17 AM |
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I'd say go for an early 'Busa ('99 or '01). Complete bikes are going on eBay for as little as £2800 and I've seen engine
packages go for £1750 but you'll have to bide your time and stick to your budget until you get one at the right price (bear in mind the economic
downturn should have reduced demand). You'll probably need about £1200 to dry sump it with new parts but second hand systems are about. I reckon
you could pick up a bargain in late autumn as bike prices drop at the end of the biking season. You'll need a power commander and, with most dry
sumps, an electric water pump as well.
A standard 'Busa will chuck out 180 BHP at the crank and (depending on drive train) over 160 BHP at the wheels.
If you decide not to go for a dry sump you would probably get away with a billet sump and an Accusump oil pressure storage system.
[Edited on 28/8/09 by sucksqueezebangblow]
Better to Burnout than to Fade Away JET METAL ~ AndySparrow © 
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Frosty
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 11:17 AM |
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I would (and did) go for a 2006/7 Busa engine and fix a dry sump system.
My car has probably done around 1,000 track miles and thankfully have suffered no engine problems.
The 2008 engine is still quite new to the BEC world. Radical are using it successfully, but they modify them a bit first.
I can confirm the 2007 engine with a dry sump system is very robust though. Ultimately I think it will fail eventually, but it has been great so far.
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franky
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 11:25 AM |
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why not go for a zx12r lump same power, cheaper to buy.
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imp paul
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 11:28 AM |
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or zx14r busa killa
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Triggerhappy
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 11:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
Malc tells me that he has seen 4 08 busa engines go bang for no apparent reason.
WHAT?? that makes me worried....i´m building with an brand spanking new beast of that and REALLY hopes it´s not gona bang in the early outings....
I fitted mine with Nova´s drysump and baffles. Havent turned the key yet thou...
From mecanical standpoint the K8- busas are uprated in:
Stronger/bigger output shaft
Uprated clutch
Titanium valves
Uprated oilpump
And of cource the extra hp´s come from cc´s by stroke, higher compression and double injectors.
But then again...havent touched the key yet?
Im from Sweden, so im escused...The Muppet drummer for president!!
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yorkshire-engines
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 12:32 PM |
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ok the 2008 busa is a good motor dont get me wrong but 4 grass track races have blown them up now they do abuse there engines so this may be
the cause
the 08 has smaller piston pin rings than the early ones as well this may prove to be a problem
the early busa engines are great and you can either dry or wet sump em personally id go wet sump
all you need to do is keep an eye on oil pressure
cheer s malc
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welderman
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 12:36 PM |
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ive got a full 2000 reg full busa that is going on ebay very soon, too good to break up, has 6 months mot left but no tax
Thank's, Joe 
I don't stalk people
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=172301
Back on with the Fisher Fury R1
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 01:24 PM |
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2001 engine here, shortened and baffled sump, accusump, cost £1500.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 01:25 PM |
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Our Radical Clubsport ran a Hyabusa for several seasons and was only wet sumped with some additional baffling. So full aerodynamics and slicks
producing several Gs in cornering and braking and no oil related issues.
Only thing to note is its was mid mounted so transverse across the car.
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orton1966
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 06:58 PM |
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12r's are better value
I spent a long time having the same debate, as you, with myself and others. Psychologically it is hard to swim against the tide and the world and his
wife seems to say Busa but here is the decision I made:
Zx12r - £1250 all in, clocks, ecu, power commander loom, sensors the lot
Swinging pickup sump – £600, Yes I heard some people saying they were OK with a cut and baffled sump but at the price it seemed good value piece of
mind
So for £1800 I have a reliably oiled engine, ready to go and with as much power as a pre 08 busa. I can’t imagine anyone currently getting an 08 busa
or zx14 up and running for less than £3k probably even £3.5k is hard once you include sump mod’s (as a minimum) and power commander.
Additionally with what I’ve saved, at a latter date, I could get a decent head job and over-bore and become a fully paid up member of the 200bhp club!
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Daimo_45
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| posted on 28/8/09 at 07:53 PM |
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BUSA I FOUND ON EBAY
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moochofun
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| posted on 29/8/09 at 09:29 PM |
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My experience for what its worth:
I bought an 08 engine from Malc late last year for my westie and it hasn't missed a beat yet... I run a wet sump system: have a shortened,
baffled sump with a swinging pick up. I put on the larger oil pump drive gear too. I run my car on the road, trackdays, sprints & hillclimbs -
that is alot of varied types of abuse. I have no issues whatsoever with it and based on my experience I would reccomend one! As for the failures
mentioned, never been to a grass track meet but maybe they are always up near the top end of the rev range? They will all blow eventually if its neck
is wrung non stop...
If I were to be in your position again I would probably opt for a pre 08 Busa though as I fancy some sort of forced induction... Opinions are that the
new 08 engines don't lend themselves to that very well - same again about opinions though. It wasn't that long ago peeps were saying that
you couldn't fit an o8 Busa or late ZX14 engine...
A ZX14 engine might be another option for you - Paublo999 on here has one of these in his snot green MNR and we are always fighting it out at the
racing...
Opions are like sphincters in that everyone has one... Just go with what you feel most comfortable with and most importantly afford...
Sezing the moment...
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G.Man
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| posted on 29/8/09 at 10:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by moochofun
Opions are like sphincters in that everyone has one...
Hey if yer gonna quote my sig, at least get it right
xD
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Chet
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| posted on 1/9/09 at 12:40 AM |
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FYI -
Yet another opinion (gained through experience) and hopefully some info that might be of help-
The Hayabusa engine has had several minor changes from 99 - 07 and a major change in 08.
Some key improvements -
02 - Improved rotor (more pickups) and electrics
03 - Revised starter system
****Needed for BEC to prevent starter and possible engine case destruction in a spin. The 03 starter can be retrofitted to earlier engines
08 - Gen II engine with numerous changes such as +better heads, + bigger crank, + bigger trans mainshaft, -lightweight valvesprings, -windowed
cylinders, -smaller piston pins,-different trans forks etc.
General consensus is that the 08 engine in stock condition provides a serious improvement over both stock and modified earlier engines.
Modified (i.e. Turbo or full race) Gen II engines will benefit by using the earlier cylinders (stronger), earlier shift fork setup, and HD valve
springs.
Dry sump vs Wet sump
*Dry sump systems add weight, complexity, space issues (large oil reservoir), high cost and are not necessarily any more reliable than a well designed
wet sump system.
*Using a cut height stock oil pan with or without a windage tray is not a well designed wet sump system! The stock oil pan has a |_| shaped sump at
the bottom with a \ / shape above that. If a stock oil pan is cut for additional clearance the remaining V shape acts as an acceleration ramp to
move the oil away from the pickup.
I spoke to Jim Koenig several years ago and started using his billet oil pans with a swinging pickup for the US Hayabusa Furys. The Koenig oil pan has
a |___| shape which provides a larger oil capacity than stock even with the reduced height and also a pickup that moves with the oil. Numerous vendors
have copied the Koenig oil pan since then and some of the copies are definitely inferior. We have not seen any oiling issues when using the Koenig
billet pan with an adequate oil level.
This system has worked well on both the Hayabusa Fury and the new RCR Nemesis.
Chet
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 1/9/09 at 07:14 AM |
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Thanks for the replys guys your all very helpful.
im probably going to go with a 08 and use the koenig sump as recommened. it will save me around £600 off the cost of a drysump system
need to source an engine now
Thanks
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