mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 01:04 PM |
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Splitters and Canards
Whats the general opinion on the the effectiveness the use of on a seven.
Want to design and make some for the bec
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scootz
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 01:12 PM |
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About as much use as a nuclear-powered intercontinental ballistic haddock.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 01:14 PM |
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... IMHO of course!
It's Evolution Baby!
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smart51
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 01:34 PM |
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cycle wings produce a lot of lift. A little spoiler at the rear of the wing can reduce the lift. I guess a cannard would too. It might even stop
your wing stays from breaking.
A splitter stops air the front of the car going underneath. Given the big hole in the front of the nose cone and the open floor, I'm not sure a
splitter would do much. A deeper squarer "chin" like a donkevoort or a newer MNR might be more effective.
You might also want to consider panels on your wishbones if you want to reduce front end lift. Angled upwards, they might add a bit of down force to
your suspension.
Generally, aerodynamic aids work better on the front of a seven than the rear. That is because the shape of a seven churns up the air so much
there's not a lot you can do with it at the back. Front end aero aids should work fairly well though.
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richardlee237
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:00 PM |
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They're canard to make !!!
Quote Lord Kelvin
“Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in race horses and women.”
Quote Richard Lee
"and cars"
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eddie99
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:06 PM |
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I have got hold of some carbon canards, just to push a bit of air over the wishbones to make it a tiny bit more aerodynamic. Caterham have them so
they much do something  All little helps
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by eddie99
... Caterham have them so they much do something All little helps
empty your pockets??
Not convinced by any aerodynamic aids on a 7, if you want aerodynamics you'll end up with a completely different car 
As far as I can make out any aerodynamic effects tend to happen at higher speeds >80mph so you generally don't get any benefit (maybe on
track??)..
Dan
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sucksqueezebangblow
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:36 PM |
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I have fitted a full undertray and have ordered the carbon sandwich to make my splitter. I suppose to be fully effective it would have to strech back
to the back of the bonnet line to split all the air going under the car, but I reckon doing the nosecone should be adequate. Bear in mind also that
with a full undertray you will need venting in the bonnet or sides of the engine bay.
I'm not sure how effective cannards will be but they will probably add a little downforce (and drag). I'm also planning to fit Gurney
flaps on the back curve of the front and rear arches to break the airflow away and reduce lift.
Better to Burnout than to Fade Away JET METAL ~ AndySparrow © 
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Alan M
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:37 PM |
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I agree. Aerodynamic aids do nothing at speeds below 70mph. So unless you have warp drive, don't bother!
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by eddie99
Caterham have them so they much do something
... and didn't the Emperor have some new clothes once?
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Jumpy Guy
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:51 PM |
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Hey, if they look good, and dont weigh too much, then what harm can they do?
A little bit of bling doesnt do any harm....
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CNHSS1
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 02:55 PM |
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imho aero additions such as canards and to a certain extent, splitters, are trimming devices to balance the downforce F&R. in the case of a 7Type,
you only get inherent lift, so pretty pointless, again imho. panneling the underside will reduce lift, especially at the rear axle area, where most 7
types bodywork act as a kite!!
The nose is akin to a tescos bag in the wind, great for trapping air but not much else. the inlet duct for the rad must be well sealed and an escape
route for the hot gasses found (bonnet vents, NACAs or ally chassis side panels that are open at the trailing edge. Panelling in the underside of the
engine bay often improves engine cooling as the flow through the radiator isnt stalled on its exit by random airflow cascading from underneath the car
and buggering up the flow of hot air from the rad.
I think reducing and at best negating lift, is your best goal, real DF without figure hugging full arches, cowlings for the exh system and proper aero
bodywork isnt gonna work. There were a number fo race and hillclimb westies that had aero enveloping bodywork (Black Brick rings a bell), but they
dont end up looking like a 7 type.
although a 7type is drag city (kiddies climbing frames have a high drag factor) , its not all bad news. If you can reduce say 50kgs of lift at
100mph to 10kg lift, you have a net gain of 40kgs of 'nearly downforce' so that will make the car much more stable at speed.
from what ive done on my hilllclimber, small gains (in lift reduction) are much more confidence inspiring, so worth the effort
[Edited on 14/6/10 by CNHSS1]
"Racing is life, everything else, before or after, is just waiting"---Steve McQueen
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T66
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 03:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
About as much use as a nuclear-powered intercontinental ballistic haddock.
I see your back then.....lol
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SeanStone
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 03:34 PM |
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There's no real reason why a real splitter couldn't work on a 7 car. You need a flat surface where the air stalls then you need a lip for
that high pressure air can be used for downforce. So it'll work but it will need to be well supported. I can't really see it having much
use for the normal zetecs/bec/pintos whose top speeds are quite low. Probably better for those achieving 120-130+ where the front really starts to
wander
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Humbug
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 04:19 PM |
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Re cycle wings... I like the look of the ones (Caterham CSR? MNR?) which have vents at the back and maybe they really do let out some of the air build
up and reduce lift.
To reduce cost - and a tiny bit of weight - coud you just carefully mark up 3 or 4 lines on the relevant place on the back of the wing and use an
angry grinder (carefully" to cut some slits? Would that work, or would you get rain sloshing out of the slits in rain?
Alternatively, some ali louvre vents from B&Q could work, probably best if painted to match the wings though.
Opinions on a postcard
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 05:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan M
I agree. Aerodynamic aids do nothing at speeds below 70mph. So unless you have warp drive, don't bother!
Its at 70 that we start lifting
Lower speeds I dont care what its doing just want the nose to stay put at the higher cruising speeds.
Cost to me is almost zero its just the time that it will cost me.
I had thought of the panels in the bones...
Ive also got most of the materials to make it.
So if anyone has ideas please tell me
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scootz
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 05:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by T66
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
About as much use as a nuclear-powered intercontinental ballistic haddock.
I see your back then.....lol
Indeed... you're Rad is in the post!
It's Evolution Baby!
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 06:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
quote:
Originally posted by Alan M
I agree. Aerodynamic aids do nothing at speeds below 70mph. So unless you have warp drive, don't bother!
Its at 70 that we start lifting
Lower speeds I dont care what its doing just want the nose to stay put at the higher cruising speeds.
Cost to me is almost zero its just the time that it will cost me.
I had thought of the panels in the bones...
Ive also got most of the materials to make it.
So if anyone has ideas please tell me
Are you sure it's aerodynamics and not something else in the setup?? My indy is not the best at speed at the moment, main problem is bump-steer
that I have yet to dial out and possibly the old caster problem, makes things feel a little light up front at 70mph.
Dan
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flak monkey
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 06:12 PM |
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I have just fitted Canards to mine, not driven it yet - but I will report back on the findings!
Caterham had positive results in the wind tunnel by fitting them.
They were more designed to channel air over the front suspension than increase downforce from what I understand.
That said mine doesnt start to go light at the front end until well over 100mph....
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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fha772
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 06:13 PM |
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What is the aerodynamic advantage of fixing French ducks to your car?
Or, have i mis-understood, again?
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6743&start=105
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iank
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 06:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fha772
What is the aerodynamic advantage of fixing French ducks to your car?
Or, have i mis-understood, again?
I almost made the same joke, but I felt it was a lame duck... I'm here all week, try the veal!!
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 06:58 PM |
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I had some of the carbon mods canards on my old Indy R ,I can't say they made any difference,but they did look nice 
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mcerd1
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 07:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
Its at 70 that we start lifting
what about 'longer' front wings that cover more of the front of the wheel ?(and stop as much getting undernees them)
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mcerd1
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 07:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
About as much use as a nuclear-powered intercontinental ballistic haddock.
I need one of those - I own a cat in Russia with a a lead lined stomach that I'd like to be able to feed it without leaving the house 
-
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T66
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| posted on 14/6/10 at 07:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by T66
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
About as much use as a nuclear-powered intercontinental ballistic haddock.
I see your back then.....lol
Indeed... you're Rad is in the post!
Blatant twoc of thread, thanks Scott...
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