flak monkey
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 12:30 PM |
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Hate to say I told you so....
...things can only get better...yeah right...
Clicky
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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smart51
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 12:36 PM |
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What else can we do though? If the last lot hadn't run up such massive debts and hadn't been spending £4 for every £3 it raised, we
wouldn't be in such a mess in the first place. National debt is approaching £1,000,000,000,000.00 and growing. The interest on that loan in
about £80,000 per minute. That is your and my tax that is being given away at a rate of £80,000 a minute or £6,900,000 per day. If we don't
cut public spending or raise taxes, or a combination of both, we WILL become bankrupt.
Nobody likes cuts. Nobody wants to lose their job. If you can think of another way, do tell. We all need to know and quick.
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Hector.Brocklebank
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 12:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
What else can we do though? If the last lot hadn't run up such massive debts and hadn't been spending £4 for every £3 it raised, we
wouldn't be in such a mess in the first place. National debt is approaching £1,000,000,000,000.00 and growing. The interest on that loan in
about £80,000 per minute. That is your and my tax that is being given away at a rate of £80,000 a minute or £6,900,000 per day. If we don't
cut public spending or raise taxes, or a combination of both, we WILL become bankrupt.
Nobody likes cuts. Nobody wants to lose their job. If you can think of another way, do tell. We all need to know and quick.
HERE HERE, many bleat and bleat, but have no answer only whinge on about how smug they "think" feel now.
but there comes a time when we ALL have to tighten our belts and pay the piper.
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YQUSTA
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 12:59 PM |
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I have to say I'm glad they are doing some thing.
All the others did was spend spend spend now we are in the sh1te.
20% VAT great bring it on that has to be the best tax I have seen it affects everyone not even the rich can avoid it.
I'm not big on politics but what I do know is we are in the smelly stuff and we won't get out of it burying our head in the sand like
Labour did.
I feel for anyone who has or will lose there jobs it really is horid, but it is for the good in the long run I believe as long as we can drag
ourselves out of this mess.
You just have to look at what Canada did and how much of a difference it made in the long term.
"If in doubt flat out"
Colin McRae
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sucksqueezebangblow
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:02 PM |
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High time government and beurocracy were cut down to size. They should start with the useless over-paid quangos. Let's see the deficit cleared,
a surplus banked and taxes cut!
Twelve years of boom and they spent the lot, and got us into severe debt. Gordon Brown even claimed (god like) that he had beaten boom and bust!
Ars*h*le. If he comes near me I'll blind him in the other eye.
Better to Burnout than to Fade Away JET METAL ~ AndySparrow © 
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A1
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:06 PM |
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I must say I dont know how people think were going to do it without changing our lifestyles a little. The 1.3million jobs will just be all these
people that get paid to do nothing, which will cut down on all the bullshit in everyday life. think how easy registering your car may become!!
seriously though, it has to be done.
I just feel sorry for this lot, cause they are going to look really awful cause of these cuts, labour will be voted in again and destroy everything
theyve worked 5 years to acheive...its happened before.
I agree with the VAT increase, it affects everyone equally. I always think its really harsh to just single out wealthy people, cause surely its people
with massive debt who got us into this, not wealthy people? i think we should all pay equally. like by vat. 
[Edited on 30/6/10 by A1]
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jabbahutt
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:06 PM |
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I agree that we cannot continue to keep spending what we haven't got. I also think though that people making tough decsions should lead by
example.
As MP's are public sector employees I expect them to be first to take a pay cut/no more gold plated pensions etc to show that they are prepared
to suffer with the rest of us.
Under the last government I was made redundant more than once, looks like a change of leadership is again going to force me to brush up on my
CV/interview skills, if there is a job to apply for that is.
Still until the axe actually falls there isn't much you can do but watch and wait
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pajsh
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:11 PM |
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Agreed - Nobody likes it but it's reality.
It's just like me spending more than I earn, sooner or later it's got to change.
I think it's brave of them (probably no choice realy) to try and tackle the situation that the previous Govenment have created and clearly
didn't want to own up to.
Had labour got back in what would they have done??
Typical example is giving "poor" kids £35 a week to stay on at college. My kids have loads of friends who get EMA and are better of the us
and my kids never did.
Theres plenty of similar holes in the collander that need plugging.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:32 PM |
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I didnt say that I dont agree with some of the cuts. But another 1.3m people out of work doesnt help the economy very much either. Thats another 1.3m
people that will be claiming benefits paid by taxes - some of which will be lower than their current salaries paid by the same money.
The UK cannot survive by providing services only - if we dont have anything tangible to sell then we will never sort the economy out. Without stuff to
sell you bring in no money to the economy - pretty simple really.
How about encouraging young people to study sciences, engineering? Surely that's the best way to ensure our coutries brightest future for the
UK. I haven't heard anything about this from any of the parties. Labour did more than any government in the last 30 years in reinstating and
ecouraging apprenticeships for young people and bringing back vocational training. Lets hope the Condem(n)s continue on this vein.
We are a country run by people with sociology, history and english degrees whom I dont think understand the amount of technical expertise in the
country and I dont think they understand the importance of it either. This expertise should be encouraged and used to push the UK back into the
limelight as a technological pioneer rather than banking and services.
Professional engineers and scientists have been pushing for this for a long time, but its fell on deaf ears.
Personally, as an engineer, I dont see a very bright future for the UK in this area and I know a lot of excellent, young engineers who feel the same
way. Without some government backing for new start up businesses (a lot of which has been scrapped too) then a lot of this talent is leaving the
country. Me included, if things continue the way they are now, I wont be staying in the UK for much longer than another 5 years - I will take my
knowledge out of the country along with the other 1000's of Engineering and science graduates that do the same every year.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:39 PM |
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Hasent the ministers already taken a pay cut and hasent our leader refused the primeministers pension scheme. So I think they are trying.
I agree these things need to be done, probability little later rather than sooner.
The real joke is that they say the private sector will take up the slack left by the public sector shrinking- well who is going to pay them to do
that??
Rich people will just put their major purchases through their businesses to avoid the vat.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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scootz
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hector.Brocklebank
... we ALL have to tighten our belts and pay the piper.
Does he take PayPal???
It's Evolution Baby!
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YQUSTA
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 01:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
I didnt say that I dont agree with some of the cuts. But another 1.3m people out of work doesnt help the economy very much either. Thats another 1.3m
people that will be claiming benefits paid by taxes - some of which will be lower than their current salaries paid by the same money.
The UK cannot survive by providing services only - if we dont have anything tangible to sell then we will never sort the economy out. Without stuff to
sell you bring in no money to the economy - pretty simple really.
How about encouraging young people to study sciences, engineering? Surely that's the best way to ensure our coutries brightest future for the
UK. I haven't heard anything about this from any of the parties. Labour did more than any government in the last 30 years in reinstating and
ecouraging apprenticeships for young people and bringing back vocational training. Lets hope the Condem(n)s continue on this vein.
We are a country run by people with sociology, history and english degrees whom I dont think understand the amount of technical expertise in the
country and I dont think they understand the importance of it either. This expertise should be encouraged and used to push the UK back into the
limelight as a technological pioneer rather than banking and services.
Professional engineers and scientists have been pushing for this for a long time, but its fell on deaf ears.
Personally, as an engineer, I dont see a very bright future for the UK in this area and I know a lot of excellent, young engineers who feel the same
way. Without some government backing for new start up businesses (a lot of which has been scrapped too) then a lot of this talent is leaving the
country. Me included, if things continue the way they are now, I wont be staying in the UK for much longer than another 5 years - I will take my
knowledge out of the country along with the other 1000's of Engineering and science graduates that do the same every year.
Agree with you there Flak I work as an engineer too in the telecom industry and things have been bleak for a long time.
Young people are our future and we should invest in them, If it wasn't for the help I had from the govenment when I was training I may not be
where I am today.
I believe that there should be focused training for jobs that have to be out sourced.
for example if we need more plaster's then give the youth of today a reason to train to be one, why would they do it if the pay is bad or the
pay whilst training is low, they won't unless determined.
Even though I got help when I first started I still had to do 2 job's as the £40 a week I was paid to train was next to useless, now if I was
that way inclined I could have got the same on the dole and not work 60-80 hours a week just to learn a trade and get a few beers in on the weekend.
Glad to say that it was worth it in the end but many do not look at the long term when young.
"If in doubt flat out"
Colin McRae
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Fozzie
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 02:08 PM |
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So the last 'sorry shower' created public sector jobs, which weren't even needed, yet alone 'created' anything, except
to cost us, the tax payer millions, and get 'gilded' pensions for doing nothing apart from being a waste of space, and you moan because
this 'lot' have said enough is enough ?!?!?
So another 1.3 million will be jobless which is a shame for the individuals, but......in the main, the public sector were not doing anything anyway,
apart from being paid by us (tax payer), and having pensions and pay-offs at the end of it, the like of which we (the tax payer) will never see.
About time someone called a halt to the 'gravy train'....  ....
With regard to education, I am sorry to say, that over the years, this too, in many respects has become 'dumbed down' ... 
The bar needs to be higher, much higher, to get back on the same level as the rest of the world.......
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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flak monkey
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 02:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
With regard to education, I am sorry to say, that over the years, this too, in many respects has become 'dumbed down' ...
The bar needs to be higher, much higher, to get back on the same level as the rest of the world.......
Some areas of education may have been, but the UK still has some of the worlds best universities offering the best science, engineering and technology
degrees. Cambridge, Warwick, Loughborough, Brunel, Bath to name but a small few who are each world leaders in different areas of technology.
Warwick, as its my best known example, has the manufacturing group (WMG http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/wmg/ ) that have made so many advances in
modern manufacturing methods its unreal, just a shame a lot of it is funded by companies such as Tata who are Indian, and thats where it all ends up
going.
Things havent changed from when I left high school 10 years ago (not that long I know). My career advice was non-existant and I was encouraged to move
away from engineering despite being adamant that it was what I wanted to do.
Until people are encouraged to study worthwhile subjects which can actually bring some worth back to the UK as a whole we are doomed anyway.
Regardless of whatever anyone else tries in the mean time.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Ivan
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 02:19 PM |
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A general comment from an outsider:
Always felt that one way to boost the economy is to force the public sector staff below the level of senior management (need their skills) to take
early retirement at 50 without the right to the dole for first 5 years after retirement so that they are forced to take their skills to create
businesses to survive on their inadequate pensions and have enough time and energy to make a success of the businesses.
That's what I did to myself and so far it's working 9 years down the track.
[Edited on 30/6/10 by Ivan]
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Jasper
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 03:02 PM |
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As regards education being dumbed down, I thought this too till I saw a very interesting piece on this on TV recently. Turns out IQ's have been
rising year on year and kids now are cleverer than they've ever been.
Teenagers might not seem that way (I would be the first to say this) but the facts suggests they are on the whole a fair bit cleverer than most of us
when we were the same age.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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coozer
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 03:15 PM |
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I left school expectign a trade at the colliery, Thatcher decided to cancel the NCB apprenticeship scheme that year....
I was made redundant last year under Browns eye.
I am making myself unemployed in 3.5 weeks time. I WILL NOT be going to the dole, it was the worst experience of my life last year and I will not be
doing it again. I will fend for myself.
All in I think the coalition is a little fairer than any single party and am only a little dismayed at the rise in the tax threshhold to 7500 instead
of the talked at 10500.
I thought about leaving this country as well but that would just make me an immigrant somewhere else, one of the things I really resent... too old now
anyway
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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sucksqueezebangblow
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 03:18 PM |
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I agree that we need to promote engineering, manufacture and high tech services for export. I do think the Beeb has actually helped a little by
promoting engineering and vocational skills in their programming, and other channels have followed. We certainly need to do much more to develop
engineering and manufacturing, but it needs to be high tech to compete with nations with endlesss low paid human resources.
Better to Burnout than to Fade Away JET METAL ~ AndySparrow ©
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bmseven
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 04:42 PM |
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Bring back National Service
I honestly don't expect the current crew to be any better than the last in fact about the same as the prior lot 
Time will tell but like anything speculate to accumulate 
[Edited on 30/6/10 by bmseven]
BMW 7 Resource
Bures Pit anyone?
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eznfrank
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 05:18 PM |
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What I don't understand is why I'm getting off so lightly out of the deal? I'm 31, no kids, no debts and earn decent money and can
and would be happy to pay more than my fair share towards sorting this problem but to be honest I'll be surprised if I notice a difference at
all. That seems a bit backwards to me?
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alister667
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 05:27 PM |
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Funny enough just the other day I was wondering how the 'last lot' mismanaged the economy to leave us £155 Billion in deficit. In all
those years of prosperity couldn't they have saved something? Anything?
Then I remembered The Banking Crisis. There were some big figures floating around then.
The Daily
Telegraph puts the cost at 26.7% of GDP.
How much is that? Well Wikipedia gives it as £2000 -2100 Billion for 2009.
A quarter of that is about £500 Billion.
But that's not a true 'cost' figure, it's the total underwritten by the Gov't.
The amount of GDP we've actually lost is roughly 15-20%
according to the Bank of England.
This means somewhere close to £300 Billion.
It looks to me as though the banking crisis is the cause of the huge hole in our Exchequer. Not necessarily Labour incompetence. Of course they
could have let the banks go to the wall, but I don't think many folk thinks that was a great idea.
[Edited on 30/6/10 by alister667]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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scootz
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 05:36 PM |
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And which nation were central to the financial meltdown... that'll be the USA with all their sub-prime lending nonsense!
And has Obama said much about it... not really... but he's pretty damn good at berating other nations when their agencies screw-up!
It's Evolution Baby!
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alister667
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 05:47 PM |
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I was digging a little more. Of course the GDP does not equate to the amount of money the Gov't spends (or can spend) every year.
According to The Guardian (great
diagram!) the Govt was spending £608 Billion in 2008 / 2009.
It's not hard to see the effect a few missing hundred Billion income has in the exchequer.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 07:23 PM |
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I wonder if any of that 1.3 million losing their jobs will be repatriated foreign nationals?
If we are in debt, how can we give so much away in foreign aid?
We are effectively borrowing money from the IMF, paying horrendous interest and then giving it away.
How can we afford to engage in two wars that were initiated by lies anyway?
They say they are considering cutting benefits, to encourage people to go back to work. Where are the jobs for them to seek?
Why do the government vilify people on benefit, seek custodial sentences for some poor sod that fiddled a few quid on the side to buy stuff for their
family (bearing in mind that in real terms, dole is worth about half what it was in the early seventies), yet refuse to prosecute MPs for stealing
tens of thousands?
I'm glad I'm old and won't be around to see where this is all going to end up. 
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Fozzie
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| posted on 30/6/10 at 07:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
As regards education being dumbed down, I thought this too till I saw a very interesting piece on this on TV recently. Turns out IQ's have been
rising year on year and kids now are cleverer than they've ever been.
Teenagers might not seem that way (I would be the first to say this) but the facts suggests they are on the whole a fair bit cleverer than most of us
when we were the same age.
I think that all depends on which generation/decade you were either lucky or unlucky to have been born into.
I know with my own kids, they started messing around with 'first' and 'middle' schools, and with arty-farty teaching systems.
Poor cherubs didn't know whether they were coming or going.
Having seen and experienced the education system they went through, and now the next generation are going through it in a slightly different way, I
feel so very privileged to have been educated when I was.
Fozzie
Edit to add......Just seen your post Confused...very well put IMHO
[Edited on 30-6-10 by Fozzie]
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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