Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 01:48 PM |
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Am I mad (or just stupid)
OK, so just been reading the 'what engine shall I put in' thread (thanks rich.h44), and figured I would solicit feedback before I spend
some serious money on an lump..
I've kind of decided (after pondering for many, many months), that the weapon of choice will possible be a Mazda MPS DISI engine (Essentially a
2.3 duratec turbo - 263 HP stock!!).
Does anyone see any reason why this wouldbe a bad idea? I know there are a whole heap of 2.0 Duratec installs out there, but dont hear much about the
2.3 (negligble power difference for the extra weight).. Is anyone familiar with the engine / install? Is it going to be too tall, require dry sumping,
major issues with exhaust pipework and routing etc (my initial thoughts on problems)??
Oh and of course, as this will be my first se7en, is that TOO MUCH power (cant believe I'm asking), as I dont fancy meeting Mr Lamppost anytime
soon?
General opinions and all round mockery is more than welcome!!
Thanking y'all.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 01:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Poorscousertommy
Oh and of course, as this will be my first se7en, is that TOO MUCH power (cant believe I'm asking), as I dont fancy meeting Mr Lamppost anytime
soon?
too much power - thats never stopped anyone before  
there are a few locosts around with that kind of power and alot of other kits (dax's etc....)
I thought the main reason folk didn't use the 2.3 was its much easier to get hold of a 2.0
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dan8400
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 02:07 PM |
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Go for it!! Imagine how economical it'll be!! I read somewhere a few years ago someone put a 306 DT engine in a locost and was getting something
daft like 75mpg.....
Dan
Hey - That's Journey!!!
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mookaloid
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 02:12 PM |
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Good engine 
Too much power? - what's the fastest car you have driven till now?
If you haven't gone any faster than say a modern GTi hatch then you are looking at a few things which are just waiting to catch you out. one is
the power (obviously) which will take you to 60mph in something around 3 secords or so and the second is rear wheel drive which is a very long way
from most peoples experience nowadays. also you have no driver safety aids to get you out of trouble - no ABS, no traction control, no crumple zones
etc etc.
Soo it could well be more than many people could handle and you will need to be a seriously good driver to be able use all the power without losing
it.
in any case the place for a car with that sort of power is on a track. IMHO it will be frustrating to drive on the road because it is capable of going
much much faster normal road speeds.
But why not build it? it could be a great car when finished
Good luck
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 02:26 PM |
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Whatever engine you start with you WILL end up wanting more
I started off with a vaux red top bout 180bhp and now i have a 2L nissan sr20det running 321bhp and could do with some more power BUT the tyres start
to get expensive
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 02:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
IMHO it will be frustrating to drive on the road because it is capable of going much much faster normal road speeds.
Yep far too true and you end up racing against motorbikes for fun
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 02:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
IMHO it will be frustrating to drive on the road because it is capable of going much much faster normal road speeds.
Aren't most cars? So that's that argument squashed! Go for it!
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Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 02:46 PM |
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Yup - modern Gti is about the sum of the parts - current daily hack is a Mondeo ST, but I just couldnt face the BEC boys leaving me for dead on track
days - that would kinda defeat the object of building a proper sportscar!! Only RWD experience has been a RX8 - loadsa fun and a little tail happy in
the wet, but I'm sure neither will prepare me for whats in store in a locost regardless of engine choice... (Gulp!)
So the power will help me sharpen my driving skills - any thoughts on the install (as I'm an engineer, so not too mechanically minded )
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 02:54 PM |
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Cracking engine! Keep in mind though that it is a direct injection engine and that you would thus be best of running it on it's original
management system If you manage to do that, it'll be a stormer for sure, that engine is already *really* quick in the heavy donor car. Your best
bet would probably be to try and source a complete car / front clip and install everything you need to get the engine running.
I might be able to get hold of the technical documentation for that engine. PM me if interested.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 03:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
IMHO it will be frustrating to drive on the road because it is capable of going much much faster normal road speeds.
Aren't most cars? So that's that argument squashed! Go for it!
That's not an argument for not doing it - it's an argument for taking it to a track
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Dusty
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 04:00 PM |
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Is it too much power? I think it might be. My last upgrade was to 200bhp. I've been driving sevens for 10 years including trackdays but I am an
old fart so reactions slowing a bit. I find all is well in the summer when it's usually dry and I drive it most days and I'm tuned in to
the car.
This winter I am only driving it every week or so, so I'm slightly out of practice. The roads are greasy and it's easy to underestimate
the speed it accelerates at giving greater corner entry speeds than planned as you're going faster and the increased braking distances have left
me a bit white knuckled on occasion. No problem on track where you tune in fast and it's fairly safe if you get it wrong.
Starting out fresh to RWD and sevens it's very easy to lose it just coming out of a roundabout. I would go for about half that power to start
with.
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scootz
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 04:07 PM |
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I guess there will be a point of diminishing returns on a lightweight car like a Se7en. Unfortunately I have no idea whatsoever where that point is!
It's Evolution Baby!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 04:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I guess there will be a point of diminishing returns on a lightweight car like a Se7en. Unfortunately I have no idea whatsoever where that point is!
^^ he's not lying - he really doesn't know when to stop 
.....says me with an all steel bottom end in my pinto.... and thats before its ever been on the road
[Edited on 14/1/2011 by mcerd1]
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hughpinder
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 04:24 PM |
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Thats the same amount of power as a caterham R500 or CSR (I think the CSR uses the 2.3 duratec BTW). I was reading an article a couple of years ago
by a chap who was racing the top spec caterhams, and had done for donkeys years. He decided he was getting on a bit and he would go for a lower spec
car for a season, and so went for the model with only 150 bhp instead of the R500s 260bhp. In the article, he said he actually gained as many racing
points that year as the best he'd done in the last 10 years, mainly because at that level of power he could floor it out of pretty much any
corner rather than trying not to overdo it all the time, and he did especially well if it was wet. My conclusion from this, (as I will also be a
newbie in this sort of car, when I finally get it built), is that 150-200bhp is probably (more than) enough on the road, any more is unlikely to
exploitable, unless you are a superb driver.
Regards
Hugh
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Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 04:39 PM |
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I'm really quite good at GT5???? 
Seriously - thank you everyone, thats why I like the forum.. Informative, honest opinions that do nothing to help you make a decision haha!!
Happy medium? 2.0 Duratec on tb's maybe? Hmmm...
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mookaloid
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 04:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Poorscousertommy
I'm really quite good at GT5????
And that helps how exactly?
quote:
Happy medium? 2.0 Duratec on tb's maybe? Hmmm...
that hits the sweet spot in my humble opinion
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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hughpinder
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 05:20 PM |
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By the way, if you're going duratec, read flak monkeys thread here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/9/viewthread.php?tid=109801
I know the title makes it seem like its just to do with the sump, but don't be fooled by that!
Regards
Hugh
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Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 05:30 PM |
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Yeah, read it in great detail - as well as his website with the supercharger install as i didnt fancy the cost of dry sumping an S2000, that was
always going to be the path until i tripped over the mps - that was essentially the same toy 'out of the box' with a few more gee gees to
boot!! Im after putting together a track toy, but not sure i have flakmonkeys mechanical flair.. Im happy puttin together everythin on the car, but
tearin down engines is just a tad outside my sphere of experience (for now at least)!!
Question now is do i follow my heart or my head
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gottabedone
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 05:45 PM |
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Where I don't disagree with what people have said ^^^^^^^^^, I will say that if we all aimed for the sweet spot then we'd all be driving
the same cars, with the same sized wheels, in a similar range of colours powered by either a ZZR or a 2 litre duratec. listen to the opinions but
it's fine to be different.
No offense guys but so many owners can't drive their 7's on or near the limit because they simply can't get them to behave. Fitting
bike throttle bodies and megasquirt is the norm but so many cause huge problems..... Apparently you can't fit a diesel because of weight etc etc
etc - well so what if your 7 weighs 650kg's with a 150bhp + diesel engine. It will still go like stink compared to most tintops and will do 50
to the gallon!
Sorry for the rant - just saying don't get steered into the groove because it doesn't suit everyone 
have fun
Steve
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rich.h44
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| posted on 14/1/11 at 05:56 PM |
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Go for it if you have available the only thing I have a worrie about is traction, that's why when I decide what engine is going in mine
it's staying standard unless iv got some nice wide tyre to give me the grip! Also another reson I want mine as 4wd
good luck
Rich
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/1/11 at 08:43 PM |
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I have a 200hp redtop in a 540kg car and its not enough........
go for it!!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Canada EH!
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 posted on 16/1/11 at 09:14 PM |
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My son has an RX8, if you think that is tail happy you have no idea what you are about to experience. Did you turn the traction control off on the
RX8?
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franky
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| posted on 16/1/11 at 09:22 PM |
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Go for it, if you can fit all the original engine management and inlet side of it you'll save yourself loads.
IMO its best to get a lump that makes good power as standard to save all the extra spending chasing BHP later on. People spend ££££'s on
aftermarket ECU's/ITB's and setup. Should be a good way to cheap reliable power.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 16/1/11 at 09:32 PM |
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Go for it! Just be damned careful when you have it finished.
Great engine, just asking for more boost. They have forged rods and pistons as standard so will take a lot of boost no worries.
As for the power in a RWD car...I ended up with 290bhp and 240lbft at the end of my supercharger install. Too much? Maybe. But with 205 R888's
on the back and a Tranx LSD you could floor it in second and not spin the wheels, but with provocation it would light up both back wheels no worries.
So it was mentally fast. 30-50 in 0.9 sec and 50-70 in the same.... had to watch it overtaking as you'd soon hit a ton...
If you do go for that power bear in mind you'll need a proper LSD in the back to use it all to the best (a Sierra viscous or Torsen wont cut it
IMO). And decent tyres to put it down on the road.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/1/11 at 09:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Go for it! Just be damned careful when you have it finished.
Great engine, just asking for more boost. They have forged rods and pistons as standard so will take a lot of boost no worries.
As for the power in a RWD car...I ended up with 290bhp and 240lbft at the end of my supercharger install. Too much? Maybe. But with 205 R888's
on the back and a Tranx LSD you could floor it in second and not spin the wheels, but with provocation it would light up both back wheels no worries.
So it was mentally fast. 30-50 in 0.9 sec and 50-70 in the same.... had to watch it overtaking as you'd soon hit a ton...
If you do go for that power bear in mind you'll need a proper LSD in the back to use it all to the best (a Sierra viscous or Torsen wont cut it
IMO). And decent tyres to put it down on the road.
Glad you mentioned the traction thing. So many on here talk of epic wheelspin and lack of traction even with modest power. I've never had any
problems at all with 200hp and 195 section tyres (yoko a048r). unless you get very provocative, you can give it full throttle from 2nd gear onwards
with no traction issues at all.......as long as its dry!!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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