woodster
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 09:59 PM |
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Athens burns
Very sad but I think it's only going to get worse right across Europe
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/12/photos-from-riots-in-greece-over-unpopular-austerity-measures/
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nick205
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 10:52 PM |
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 , but I think you're right, there'll be more of this to come I fear and not just in Greece.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 10:57 PM |
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Some nations are prepared to work, others seem to just want to take advantage of this.
The stats on loans not repaid, tax evasion etc are horrendous for Greece compared to other countries.
I,m just surprised that it's taken this long, Germany has shouldered a huge amount of other peoples dept, but then they are prepared to work
hard so can afford it is not the answer, Greece needs to stand up and work their own way out of it.
To me its just like the parasites in this country that make social security a way of life, its a good analogy when you think about as most crime is
also commited by these people.
[Edited on 12/2/12 by mark chandler]
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tegwin
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 11:15 PM |
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Nobody likes change forced upon them.... but if you live a freeloading lifestyle eventually you are going to have to change and do some work....
We have all had it very easy for the last decade... things are going to have to change, back to the way they were when my old man was my age...
Lets just hope to god that Labour does not get in at the next GE!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 11:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
To me its just like the parasites in this country that make social security a way of life, its a good analogy when you think about as most crime is
also commited by these people.
[Edited on 12/2/12 by mark chandler]
Lets not get into socio-economic determinants - its really not black and white, and you can tar a lot of people with broad brush statements like that.
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coozer
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 11:22 PM |
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About time we did to get out of the worehouse that is the EU...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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RK
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 11:23 PM |
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People were told things were fine for years, and that retirement at 53 or whatever was normal. How were they supposed to know otherwise? Now, they
have to learn the hard way. Somehow, the public will pay for the private profits, as usual. This is the "capitalist" way. Conservatives
are no different to anybody else, except they make sure their friends get the contracts first.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 12/2/12 at 11:48 PM |
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I did quantify the statement by including 'that make social security a way of life'
I agree that a number of people are forced into social security, but these are the people that are looking for gainful employement and do not commit
crime.
[Edited on 12/2/12 by mark chandler]
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RK
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 12:10 AM |
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It's all rotten, in every possible way, but the question is how to move on without too much pain.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 12:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
We have all had it very easy for the last decade...
Speak for yourself, the only effect of this recession I've felt is that employers are being bigger a-holes!
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Hector.Brocklebank
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 12:46 AM |
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Having lived, worked and tried to make a living along side the Greek way of "Sigar Sigar" life for many years.... And having some VERY
VERY good Greek friends, Oh And having been married to a typically Greek female too, (managed to escape that one with my clothes & tools
though)
I feel Qualified to comment.
Sadly their general attitude is as lacking as their work ethic, so sorry but I have no sympathy, there comes a time when we all have to pay the piper.
Greece's time is up, the majority of them wouldn't know a decent days work if it smacked them on the face with a wet haddock.
Females too busy drinking "frappe" & txt'ing and the men sitting at the kiosk arranging the next hunting mission.. 99% of them
are Mallaca's
Some people can never handle the truth and always try to shoot the messenger instead of taking an honest look in the mirror (its always easier to
blame another than to face reality), but secretly they wish they could grow a pair and be the messenger !!!
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Simon
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 12:48 AM |
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I said to the missus, they'll all go on strike now!
It's all down to the germans and their puppets (the french) who still seem to want to (in germany's case) control Europe, if not through
war, then through financial ruin or psychological bullying.
The Greeks should declare themselves bankrupt and get out of the euro, it's the only way they'll survive without becoming a sub state of
the Merkozy's little empire. Fair enough their currency will be worthless, but their exports will be cheap,and imports dear, so it'll make
them dependent on their own produce. We'll still holiday their, and that'll be cheap and it'll give them hard currency to buy
imports.
ATB
Simon
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RK
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 12:53 AM |
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I agree with your last bit, Simon, but the French and the Germans just want to sell stuff to other Europeans. I don't think they want to control
anybody - and I love it in France!! I'd own a place there if the missus let me.
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l0rd
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 01:11 AM |
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i will only post a short reply as i am on my mobile.
Yes, Greeks behave like that because this is the way the politicians taught us. Once upon a time, working in the public sector was considered as the
lowest job you could have. They changed it and every one wanted to work in the public sector because they can't fire you. Also, they have given
so many stupid benefits as well that they earned silly money. A janitor in the local civic offices earned 48000 euros!!!!
As for taxes, people don't pay taxes because we are fed up of the politicians stealing the money and because the tax system is hillarious.
As for the f***n germs, why haven't they repaid the money they owe us since ww2? This is an estimate of 600 billion euros. So, if they had to
repay us the money, Greece wouldn't have a problem in the first place.
Ahhh also. Greece is cutting more money from the pensioners by 300 milion euros to cover some new meassures that germs want. SO WHY DON'T THE
GERMS PAY TO GREECE THE 500 MILION EUROS THEY OWE US ON TAXES FROM THE AIRPORT IN ATHENS?
Why did Siemens bribe the greek ministers to sign deals with them? Isn't Siemens german?
Me, i am unemployed for the past 6months. My income is 300 euros from a flat that i rent out. My wife is unemployed. she has another flat that she
rents out for 400 euros a month. we are expecting a baby. As i was in uk for so many years, i am not entitled on benefits, i do not have insurance,
they want me to pay 3000 euros on emergency taxes because of our flats. So, we have an income of 8400 euros a year both us, take away the 3000 from
the emergency taxes that leaves me with 5400 euros. take away the electricity bill which is 1200 per year average, 600 euros for water per year, 2500
euros on gas for heating. ohh forgot to mension thar as we have an invome of 8400 euros, and the tax free money is 5000 euroz per year, i have to pay
340 euros on inland revenue.
To recap i have an income of 8400 euros per year and have to pay minimum 7640 if i am not mistaken without taking in to consideration food, telephone
bill, or road tax, insurance etc......
This is the life that the germs wants me to live.
and by the word germs, i mean the germans.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 07:41 AM |
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"Yes, Greeks behave like that because this is the way the politicians taught us"
That's a poor excuse, common sense should prevail if you set a retirement age at 53 and start working effectively at 20 then you have 33 years
to pay into the pension system etc, when people live to 80 then this system has to pay out for 37 years.
"As for taxes, people don't pay taxes because we are fed up of the politicians stealing the money and because the tax system is
hillarious"
If you do not pay in then why do you expect to get anything out?
Taking state money but do not trust them enough to give them any money in taxes in the first place to pay for this, you cannot have it both ways!
You can blame the German's, blame the war whatever, but if the countries ethics are wrong you will never resolve the problem.
[Edited on 13/2/12 by mark chandler]
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chrisxr2
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 09:13 AM |
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Tis a bad situation for many if only it wasbas simple as greece leaving europe. I work with a guy that lives in cyprus pays all his taxes and bills,
but has a moftgage with a greek bank which if greece defaulted means he loses his house. Fair? I dont think so.
Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
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designer
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 09:49 AM |
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The EEC 'bent' the fiscal qualification rules to let Greece into the EEC in the first place.
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 09:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
To me its just like the parasites in this country that make social security a way of life, its a good analogy when you think about as most crime is
also commited by these people.
[Edited on 12/2/12 by mark chandler]
What utter rubbish!
Tax evasion by the wealthy costs this country FAR more than all the benefits combined and to simply state that it is people on benefits that commit
all the crime is just irrational nonsense!
And yes, I've spent some time on benefits as a full time carer for a terminally ill patient. Maybe that makes me a criminal too!
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x319/zephyr2000/General%20forum%20uploads/?action=view¤t=3DEngine.mp4
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bobinspain
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 10:35 AM |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/9077586/Germanys-Carthaginian-terms-for-Greece.html
Makes interesting reading.
There are plenty more tears yet to flow before this saga is finished.
I commend to you 'The Great Deception. The secret History of the European Union,' by Christopher Booker and Richard North.
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plentywahalla
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 10:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by designer
The EEC 'bent' the fiscal qualification rules to let Greece into the EEC in the first place.
To be more accurate, The Greek government cheated! For instance the Greek railways loses billions a year in revenue to the Greek economy. The
government 'hid' the losses by claiming the expenditure was buying equity in the railways. Buying shares in a company they already owned!
There were dozens of examples like that.
But there's another side to this too.
Not many people ever comment that the Germans have done exceptionally well out of the Euro. Greece is suffering because a weak economy is damaged by
its inability to devalue its currency to make exports and tourism more competitive. By contrast the German economy has been boosted by having a fixed
rate currency. If it still had the dmark it would be trading about 30% higher today than the Euro meaning its exports are 30% cheaper abroad.
The German economy was struggling before the creation of the Euro because of the costs of re-unification and merging the East German state. No wonder
they were so keen to get everybody into the Euro, They've make a killing out of it.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men ... and the obedience of fools. (anon)
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wilkingj
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 11:18 AM |
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Regardless of which Country, Political Party, or the work ethics of any countries individual peoples.
Its all summed up by the comment that Charles Dickens wrote in the book David Copperfield in 1849.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound ought and six, result misery.
Its as true today, as it was 160 years ago, probably more so.
Its true for an individual, a family, a company, and even more so for a country.
The blame lies with ALL involved.
You cannot spend more than you earn forever. It just wont work.
Everyone has been brought up thinking they can have everything they want now, and pay later (if ever at all).
Its time for everyone to wake up to the above facts and live their lives acordingly.
There is no such thing as a "FREE meal" in life. It ALL has to be paid for eventually.
The above is NOT aimed at Greece, or ANY other country in particular. Its aimed at EVERYONE.
Its just plain common sense.
I just don't understand why people cant see it.
It's not very palatable, but the truth often hurts.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Irony
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
To me its just like the parasites in this country that make social security a way of life, its a good analogy when you think about as most crime is
also commited by these people.
[Edited on 12/2/12 by mark chandler]
What utter rubbish!
Tax evasion by the wealthy costs this country FAR more than all the benefits combined and to simply state that it is people on benefits that commit
all the crime is just irrational nonsense!
And yes, I've spent some time on benefits as a full time carer for a terminally ill patient. Maybe that makes me a criminal too!
It is not utter rubbish. Yes TAX evasion by the wealthy and super rich costs the country money but those people have had to EARN that money in the
first place and they PAY some tax on it. TAX evasion is still a crime yes but at least they are adding something to the economy.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 12:01 PM |
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"I've spent some time on benefits as a full time carer"
In that case you were employed surely? Not scratching your arse, smoking fags & drinking beer like the people that make a living from it.
Okay some people do not get a great life on social, but then thats not what its for, but you only have to watch the news to see how good it is for
some... £26,000 for housing and food only 2 weeks ago for a mother with two... I know plenty of people that work hard for 1/2 that amount, pay tax and
rent a tiny house.
Back to Greece then, they fail to pay taxes so put nothing in then expect it handed back out, the analogy still stands.
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RK
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 01:20 PM |
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One thing you should keep in mind. The really rich people stay that way no matter what happens. It's the fighting among the bottom feeders that
keeps it that way.
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Andi
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| posted on 13/2/12 at 03:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RK
One thing you should keep in mind. The really rich people stay that way no matter what happens. It's the fighting among the bottom feeders that
keeps it that way.
How refreshingly true
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