stuart collins
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 posted on 24/2/12 at 08:51 AM |
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rubber or braided hoses??
Hello chaps, i'm almost at the stage i need to fit and bleed my brake system.... my question is should i use rubber brake hoses or braided?
I know i will get more feedback with braided hoses, but have any of you had rubber and then changed to braided?? Did it make a large differance in how
the car felt to you??
Many thanks, stuart
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loggyboy
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 09:06 AM |
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Good quality braided hose (goodridge etc) from copper to caliper IMO.
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 10:03 AM |
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Braided is the only way. It also offers more protection to the hose as well as giving you the pressure where you need it.
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stuart collins
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 11:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Braided is the only way. It also offers more protection to the hose as well as giving you the pressure where you need it.
thats what i was thinking, as my build is a 7 based locost. I've done a search and seen that russbot on makes them (as i'm going to need
custom lenghs) is their any other companys i should look at??
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RichardK
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 12:40 PM |
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Nah mate, just go to Russ, he's the tops.
You wont go wrong with him.
Cheers
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 02:10 PM |
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Braided on front of mine and rubber on the back. Drums at back so I figured that was good enough since most of the brakeing effort is from the front
in any-case.. Very firm pedal like this..
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britishtrident
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 02:25 PM |
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An old chestnut this here are the pros and cons.
The bigest disadavantage of metal braided teflon is lines is they can not be clampled when working on or doing diagnostic test on the brakes.
The bigest advantage apart from bling is they are available in any custom length and fitting combination.
Rubber covered fabric hoses will probably last longer in normal road use but both will probably last decades. The braided hoses are likey to fail
from the metal braid caffing on the hose, rubber covered hoes fail through either external chaffing or the rubber decaying.
Braided have a very very small effect on pedal firmness ---- they are not a cure for long pedal for anybody the doubts this try on a tintop
with engine not running pumping the brakes until ther brake servo resevoir is exhausted -- the pedal should be rock hard.
[Edited on 24/2/12 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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russbost
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 04:27 PM |
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"Rubber covered fabric hoses will probably last longer in normal road use but both will probably last decades."
The braided stainless hoses/fittings I sell are all guaranteed for life (mine/yours or the cars, we're not fussy!) so the rubber ones will have
to last a long time indeed to beat that!!! 
Most rubber hoses start to perish by around 10 years old, they start to collapse internally at around the same time!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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stuart collins
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 04:41 PM |
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Russbost, I'll phone you over the next couple of days when i know what i need....
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britishtrident
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 04:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"Rubber covered fabric hoses will probably last longer in normal road use but both will probably last decades."
The braided stainless hoses/fittings I sell are all guaranteed for life (mine/yours or the cars, we're not fussy!) so the rubber ones will have
to last a long time indeed to beat that!!!
Most rubber hoses start to perish by around 10 years old, they start to collapse internally at around the same time!
The only defective new brake hose I have ever encountered was metal braided (end fitting nor completely drilled through ) just a random
occurrence that proves nothing about the quality of braided hose fittings but considering the number of conventional hoses I have fitted over the
decades I find it fairy safe to assume a defective new conventional hose is almost unknown.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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russbost
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"Rubber covered fabric hoses will probably last longer in normal road use but both will probably last decades."
The braided stainless hoses/fittings I sell are all guaranteed for life (mine/yours or the cars, we're not fussy!) so the rubber ones will have
to last a long time indeed to beat that!!!
Most rubber hoses start to perish by around 10 years old, they start to collapse internally at around the same time!
The only defective new brake hose I have ever encountered was metal braided (end fitting nor completely drilled through ) just a random
occurrence that proves nothing about the quality of braided hose fittings but considering the number of conventional hoses I have fitted over the
decades I find it fairy safe to assume a defective new conventional hose is almost unknown.
Sorry, you've lost me - what's that got to do with the longevity of a hose???
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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gazza285
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 08:56 PM |
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As long as the flexy isn't rubbing then there's little to choose between them.
Rubber tends to break down over time giving plenty of warning, easily picked up at MOT time, while chafing braided hoses tend to soon lose strength
and fail completely very quickly. As with most things, look after them and both will last a long time.
One thing to consider is that if you get Russ's stainless fittings and fit them into alloy calipers expect galvanic corrosion.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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russbost
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 10:10 PM |
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"One thing to consider is that if you get Russ's stainless fittings and fit them into alloy calipers expect galvanic corrosion."
Ummm................,I'm not a metallurgical chemist, but I have a feeling that corrosion between cadmium plated mild steel & an alloy
caliper might be rather more swift & severe than that between stainless steel & the same alloy. I have watched cadmium plated stuff (many
cheap braided hose ends & all rubber hose ends) go seriously rusty in the space of 3 months in a damp atmosphere.
Irrelevant of the above I would point out that of all the hoses I sell to car owners (as opposed to bikes) probably less than 5% are fitted to alloy
calipers.
But hey, what do I know, anyone that wants to, go ahead save yourself a couple of quid a hose & buy rubbish, ugly looking rubber hoses with ends
that will be rusty in a few months & probably aren't really the correct length for your car & when they go rotten in about 10 years time
& kill you (or the owner at the time) don't come crying to me!!!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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gazza285
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 10:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"One thing to consider is that if you get Russ's stainless fittings and fit them into alloy calipers expect galvanic corrosion."
Ummm................,I'm not a metallurgical chemist, but I have a feeling that corrosion between cadmium plated mild steel & an alloy
caliper might be rather more swift & severe than that between stainless steel & the same alloy.
You may have a feeling that its worse, but cadmium coatings are used on steel to prevent galvanic corrosion between steel and aluminium, indeed it was
first developed as a coating for use in the aircraft industry, specifically to address the issue of galvanic corrosion between steel and aluminium
alloys.
But hey, what do I know
In an ideal world stainless steels and normal steel/iron metals should be physically seperated as well, but damn it, braided hoses do look better.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 10:57 PM |
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It is not corrosion of the steel or stainless steel fitting but the corrosiion of the caliper.
What makes stainless steels is stainless is either chrome or nickel that forms around the ferrous grains in the stainless steel, an easy way
to look at it is each grain of steel is chrome plated. Corrosion between different metals or Galvanic corrosion is dependant on the distance
between the metals in the galvanic series.
Quoting from Wikipedia
" The galvanic series (or electropotential series) determines the nobility of metals and semi-metals.
When two metals are submerged in an electrolyte, while electrically connected, the less noble (base) will experience galvanic corrosion. The rate of
corrosion is determined by the electrolyte and the difference in nobility. The difference can be measured as a difference in voltage potential.
Galvanic reaction is the principle upon which batteries are based.
Galvanic series (most noble at top)
The following is the galvanic series for stagnant (that is, low oxygen content) seawater. The order may change in different environments.
Graphite
Palladium
Platinum
Gold
Silver
Titanium
Stainless steel 316 (passive)
Stainless Steel 304 (passive)
Silicon bronze
Stainless Steel 316 (active)
Monel 400
Phosphor bronze
Admiralty brass
Cupronickel
Molybdenum
Red brass
Brass plating
Yellow brass
Naval brass 464
Uranium 8% Mo
Niobium 1% Zr
Tungsten
Stainless Steel 304 (active)
Tantalum
Chromium plating
Nickel (passive)
Copper
Nickel (active)
Cast iron
Steel
Lead
Tin
Indium
Aluminum
Uranium (pure)
Cadmium
Beryllium
Zinc plating (see galvanization)
Magnesium
End quote
In the table he distance between Stainless Steel and Aluminium is greater than the distance between steel and aluminium therefore when
connected to Stainless steel fittings an aluminium alloy caliper will corrode faster than when connected to steel.
Connecting a stainless fitting to a steel caliper will still cause accelerated corrosion of the calliper but to a much lesser extent.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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russbost
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 11:03 PM |
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I bow to your greater knowledge!
However I could point out that as the hoses are guaranteed for life you'll never need to remove them & at least the bits sticking out of the
caliper won't be rusty as opposed to mild steel which most certainly will!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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gazza285
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 11:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
What makes stainless steels is stainless is either chrome or nickel that forms around the ferrous grains in the stainless steel, an easy way
to look at it is each grain of steel is chrome plated. Corrosion between different metals or Galvanic corrosion is dependant on the distance
between the metals in the galvanic series.
Nothing to do with the exterior layer of chromium oxide preventing the ingress of oxygen into the iron then? Nickel doesn't protect the steel,
its there to help bind the chromium oxide layer together. Chrome plating is a very bad analogy. Nickel plating does not work unless over copper, and
the surface finish before plating has to be smooth, then realistically a thin coat of chrome is needed to stop the nickel from tarnishing. A
completely wrong way of looking at it is each grain of steel is chrome plated.
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
It is not corrosion of the steel or stainless steel fitting but the corrosiion of the caliper.
Isn't that what we are on about? Have you been drinking or something? Whatever corrosiion is
[Edited on 24/2/12 by gazza285]
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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