beaver34
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| posted on 1/3/12 at 11:23 PM |
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Boost control
Hi,
Wandering what the turbo guys on here do regards boost control on there engines, electronic or manual and ecu controlled, and what's best?
Thanks
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RK
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 12:19 AM |
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Dunno, I'll let you know. Just bought a manual boost controller for the Nissan CA18DET. Doesn't look hard to put in, and I've been
told it won't screw up the ECU tune. Start with it closed and gradually open it. That's pretty much it from my limited experience. It goes
between the wastegate and the turbo. Dead simple and reliable (supposedly); easier than the boost gauge install.
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madteg
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 06:42 AM |
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It will screrw up your ecu as the more boost you run the more fuel you need. Be very careful because you could end up running weak and cause
detonation, this would be bad.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 10:26 AM |
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Megasquirt controlling a Subaru boost control valve. I run a duty cycle map (not yet tried adaptive control).
I have plumbed it in the fail-safe manner described on the MS site, which reduces its effectiveness, but it does seem to work.
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pekwah1
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 11:25 AM |
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manual boost controllers are fine providing you have a good reliable boost gauge and pipes.
The problem comes from upping the boost without doing anything else.
From experience i have ruined a few turbos/engines because i thought i was clever by increasing my boost.
I later learned that it is very advisable to also get your ECU remapped as doing the boost alone can have bad effects when you don't adjust any
of the spark or fueling stuff....
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SausageArm
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 12:28 PM |
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I'm using a Turbosmart E-Boost Street electronic boost controller, seems easy to use and pretty good so far
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beaver34
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 07:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SausageArm
I'm using a Turbosmart E-Boost Street electronic boost controller, seems easy to use and pretty good so far
where do you fit it, done want it getting wet under dash might be an option
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SausageArm
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 09:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
where do you fit it, done want it getting wet under dash might be an option
I mounted mine on top of the scuttle panel underneath the aeroscreen, i'll get a photo of it for you.
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 10:31 PM |
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something like the above is what you really need. Although there are loads of Jap ones out there. Your tuner will like you for it. To do it properly
you should map the ECU for each boost increment, that way the ecu knows what fuel to add any given boost setting, that is the way you get fully
adjustable safe boost control. The difference between the manual ones and the electronic ones is that you can adjust the 'gain' on an
electronic one, meaning you adjust the ferocity that the boost comes in. It changes the way the wastegate opens. for a faster spool it will hold the
wastegate shut until the desired boost is reached before opening it. With the gain down it allows the wastegate to start opening earlier allowing for
a slightly slower spool up. If the spool is too quick the boost can spike depending on your set up, a good electronic controller can help with these
issues and to a certain extent, boost creep. They also have other features like a safety shut down if boost goes over a certain level and also
display the peak boost reached. They often have several settings that can easily be changed from the driver seat at a push of a button rather than
messing around loosening the lock nut on a manual one and guessing how much you have adjusted it.
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 11:01 PM |
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Don't bother with an electronic one unless you plan to change boost frequently. A relief valve (NOT a bleed valve) plumed in will give you a
much more aggressive boost curve than bleed valve or electronic boost controller barring a couple of the top end ones. Been running negativity boost
control recently but never got it to give a spike free boost curve in pid mode or plain old dc mode. manual controller is fit and forget.
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 11:04 PM |
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assuming you want a aggressive boost curve of course!
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 07:01 PM |
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That's true  No idea why you wouldn't though, you can control it with the throttle!
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froggy
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 08:22 PM |
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with electronic control you can control the torque curve through the rev range , mbc isnt much help with a very powerful fwd car and these controllers
are very cheap 2nd hand .
i used an mbc to get some data on which spring for the ext wastegate and it was comical having to keep lifting the throttle and blowing boost to stop
the wheels spinning . the boost solenoid smoothed the boost rise from 2500-4000 nicely to the edge of traction and saved my gearbox for a while 
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 08:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
That's true No idea why you wouldn't though, you can control it with the throttle!
you cant control it with the throttle. As soon as you lift the boost is dumped and you spool again, creating more wheel spin again if thats why you
lifted in the first place......
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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PSpirine
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 09:21 PM |
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I think most of the electronic ones have similar features and cost roughly the same (£250-£350 new).
We used to use GReddy and HKS ones in Cyprus on a whole load of different Jap turbo stuff (from 200-1100hp) and they always worked without a hitch and
were very tunable (gain, progressive boost etc. as mentioned above) unlike the manual boost ones.
Manual ones (bleed valves) are perfectly fine for taking a standard turbo engine and upping the boost a little, but they have their limits in serious
tuning and rely much more on effective engine management. I know some Volvo and Saabs are quite happy just having boost doubled using a MBC and they
compensate for it with no side effects.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 10:55 PM |
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quote:
you cant control it with the throttle. As soon as you lift the boost is dumped and you spool again, creating more wheel spin again if thats why you
lifted in the first place......
Sorry but that's just wrong. You don't have to completely lift the throttle, it's not binary. If you ease off the throttle you can
easily control wheelspin and balance a turbocharged car nicely in any state you like. Sure it's not quite as easy as with a nice linear-ish
naturally aspirated engine but it's far from impossible.
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beaver34
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 11:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
you cant control it with the throttle. As soon as you lift the boost is dumped and you spool again, creating more wheel spin again if thats why you
lifted in the first place......
Sorry but that's just wrong. You don't have to completely lift the throttle, it's not binary. If you ease off the throttle you can
easily control wheelspin and balance a turbocharged car nicely in any state you like. Sure it's not quite as easy as with a nice linear-ish
naturally aspirated engine but it's far from impossible.
i doubt when you pinned in your seat with 600bhp per ton feathering the throttle is as easy as it sounds, yes its fine in a slower car i agree
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froggy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 12:30 AM |
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Haven't used one of the greddy type units but I've interrupted the power to my boost solenoid so I have a low boost setting for bad
weather , I wouldn't be surprised if these controllers have a low setting either.
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 01:29 AM |
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quote:
i doubt when you pinned in your seat with 600bhp per ton feathering the throttle is as easy as it sounds, yes its fine in a slower car i agree
Some might say that if you can't you shouldn't be driving a 600 hp/ton car.
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froggy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 08:15 AM |
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Your just full of charm aren't you !
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:22 PM |
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Was intended to be tongue in cheek, though posted from my phone made control of the smileys a bit much to be bothered with, but the point is valid
all the same. If the OP thinks they can't modulate the power without then I'm sure they'll look at the electronic aids mentioned
above, as they do make aggressively turbocharged vehicles a bit more point and press.
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ashg
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:50 PM |
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on a turbo'd 7 if you light up the rear then lift of, then throttle on again it will do its absolute best to kill you, in my opinion electronic
boost control is an absolute must.
i use my ms3 to control mine. for a normal outing mine is mechanically setup at a base boost of 0.6 bar the ms then controls the solenoid to hold the
boost up at 1bar or what ever it tell it to do up to the rating for the actuator spring. if the boost spikes over the set limit or the wide-band sees
a fuelling issue it backs the boost back down to the base 0.6bar and retards the ignition.
if you completely over do it, the best thing you can do is lift off and stay off if you decide you cant catch it.
[Edited on 4/3/2012 by ashg]
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
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