andy996tt
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 06:45 PM |
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Self stiffening !
I've got a Tiger Avon set up for racing. But I think the suspension is a little soft. In the bends there's quite a bit of roll. Have a
look at the picture in the link.
Rather than taking it to a specialist to set up the suspension. Could I compress the springs an equal amount on each corner ?
[Edited on 31/5/13 by andy996tt]
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 06:55 PM |
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Have you thought about stiffer springs,what have you got fitted
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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andy996tt
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 07:00 PM |
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Not sure what springs I have but they're Avo shocks. The springs at the front aren't compressed at all. The ones at the back have been
squeezed by only an inch. There's a lot more travel on the collars
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Theshed
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 07:07 PM |
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Winding up the platform or putting in a spacer will adjust pre-load but not rate. You will alter your ride height. Once the roll exceeds the pre-load
you will get the same roll as before - change the springs
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Talon Motorsport
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 07:25 PM |
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nobody thought about turning the adjuster knob (if fitted) that makes the coilover stiffer?
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jacko
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 07:26 PM |
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Thought about a torsion roll bar ?
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 07:26 PM |
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The springs will be stamped with their stiffness-poundage
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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andy996tt
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 07:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Talon Motorsport
nobody thought about turning the adjuster knob (if fitted) that makes the coilover stiffer?
Is that the little red knob on my photo. Do I tighten it to the right to make it stiffer ?
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bi22le
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 08:07 PM |
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As said before, winding preload ( winding up the big red collar to compress the spring) up will adjust ride height and reduse wheel drop. As a guide
line 100mm from ground to under front chassis cross bar is about right. 125mm for rear.
Turning the inviting little red nob change rebound and compression ratio. Essentially changes how fast the wheels react to contours. This will slow
the lean but not prevent it. Not necessary solve your problem.
Spring strength will reduce roll and is the only way. Anti roll bar are another science and commonly not used on kit car race cars. Just because you
have one it don't mean its easy to set up and fit!!
Just because it feel like it leans are you loosing traction on the inside wheels? Some body roll is good.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 08:20 PM |
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As said stiffer springs the damper stops the springs bouncing I.e. up and down once when in a hole not -up down, up down, up down.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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SCAR
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 08:28 PM |
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The car does look to have quite a bit of roll in the photo. First I would find out what springs are fitted then uprate as required this will make the
car harsher over the bumps but will reduce roll in the corners. If you want to go further then fit an anti roll bar (the clues in the name) get the
right strength bar and this will keep the car flatter through the bends. find out what others with the same car are using as a best place to start as
you wont want to keep experimenting with different kit.
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snakebelly
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 08:35 PM |
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Andy where are you? Have you signed up on the tigerownersclub forum?
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andy996tt
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 08:42 PM |
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Yep. On the Tiger forum. Will ask there too.
Never dabbled with suspension before. Can't see any markings on the springs.
Don't mind if the car is stiff as its track only.
What springs would people recommend and where would u buy them ?
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rodgling
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 08:47 PM |
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The car is at quite a big angle in that photo, I agree. Have you tried holding the camera straight?
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rick1962uk
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 09:13 PM |
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just one word of warning most springs are set at 1" of compression its best to get a stronger spring rather than just screw the adjuster up as
for every other inch the spring is screwed up it doubles the rating and this will not match the damping and will feel like there is little damping
spring set up is a art form its well worth going to the experts it can save you a lot of money in the long run
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twybrow
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| posted on 31/5/13 at 11:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andy996tt
Yep. On the Tiger forum. Will ask there too.
Never dabbled with suspension before. Can't see any markings on the springs.
Don't mind if the car is stiff as its track only.
What springs would people recommend and where would u buy them ?
Go and get it setup my someone who knows what they are doing - you wont regret it....!
Procomp
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MikeCapon
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| posted on 1/6/13 at 06:27 AM |
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If you need to know the spring rate you can calculate that by measuring the spring. PM me your mail and I'll send you an Excel spring rate
calculator.
www.shock-factory.co.uk
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britishtrident
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| posted on 1/6/13 at 07:15 AM |
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We bit sanity guys
As somebody said early on in the thread winding extra pre-load on to the springs won't alter the spring rate.
To reduce roll in steady state cornering the only options are (1) Fit stiffer springs or (2) Fit an Anti-Roll Bar or (3) raise the roll
centre.
On the rear the only one of those that is viable is to fit stiffer springs.
You can't reduce roll by altering the damper stiffness because damper stiffness only effects roll under transient conditions for example
turning in or exiting the corner.
The problem with fitting stiffer springs to the rear only is it will cause a change in the roll couple distribution that will increase oversteer.
This is because stiffening the rear moves wheel vertical load (ie weight) from the inside rear wheel to the inside front wheel, in effect robbing
the rear of grip and transfering it to the front.
To get the car back into balance you will probably end up stiffening the front as well by either stiffer stings or fitting an anti-roll bar.
[Edited on 1/6/13 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 1/6/13 at 09:02 AM |
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Spring rates in lbs/in are usually etched on the flat seating area at one end of the spring.
When building any car it can save hassle later on if you know the spring rates and spring free length at each end.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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procomp
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| posted on 1/6/13 at 01:55 PM |
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Hi
Theres a lot of miss information in the above. Before even thinking of changing springs, Do you even know what those dampers are doing. Youll find
those paticular items will have farr to much compression and little rebound. IE wrong ratio for the application. The dampers need stiffening, But in
rebound not compression.
But untill you have tested the dampers changing springs is pointless. ;-)
Cheers Matt
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ElmrPhD
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| posted on 24/8/13 at 12:38 PM |
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"Miss information"? Who is she? Prettiest girl in Information?
Anyway, the bad information got corrected.
The discussion is really about roll stiffness, springs and possibly anti-roll bars.
You don't sell dampers for a living by any chance???
;-)
Steve, in the NLs
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loggyboy
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| posted on 24/8/13 at 12:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ElmrPhD
"Miss information"? Who is she? Prettiest girl in Information?
Anyway, the bad information got corrected.
The discussion is really about roll stiffness, springs and possibly anti-roll bars.
You don't sell dampers for a living by any chance???
;-)
Steve, in the NLs
why dig up a 3 month old thread to add no relevant information to it?
Mistral Motorsport
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snakebelly
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| posted on 24/8/13 at 12:47 PM |
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We have front and rear ARB's on our Avon from when we used to race, they weren't to difficult to make and fit and made all the difference.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 24/8/13 at 01:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ElmrPhD via u2u
I thought it quite relevant that the saying previous information was wrong (not entirely true) and that the first thing to do was replace the
dampers(...which he happens to sell).
And what is the official expiry date by which one must no longer react to a thread?
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?
I suggest you do some research on who your questioning, procomp has one of the best reputations on this site (and further afield im sure) for both
knowledge, ability and service for setting up cars.
he doesn't just sell dampers, he sells car setting up service and a whole lot more.
Mistral Motorsport
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 24/8/13 at 01:18 PM |
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Is it actually causing you an issue? My car is fairly soft and has a good ride.can push on alot faster than some of my friends who have stiff
suspension bouncing all over the place.for example 2 friends have identical m3s bar one has fitted coilovers.the standard one was 1s quicker around
anglesey circuit then the lowered one.which actually felt quicker . suspension setup is quite a science in my experience and without the experience
and knowledge of a specialist (alot of whom aren't) trial and error methods can get expensive!there are so many varables its just not really
viable to try everything on one car for your typical bloke.most fast cars ive seen on the rallying and circuit scene are normally afew years old with
alot of tinkering behind them! If the 4 wheels stay on the floor and it goes around corners as well as your ability to drive can who cares what it
looks like!just my opinion
Chris
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