adithorp
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 07:11 PM |
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Oil Stat's and stuff?
I'm about to replace my R1's oil/water heat ex-changer with a separte oil cooler. For the take off I could use one of
THESE but it's expensive. So a bit of research and measuring and it looks like a
Mocal SP1 sandwich plate and M20x1.5 cover will fit (as a take-off)... I think 
Now the question's are...
Should I fit a thermostatic sandwich plate or a separate oil 'stat?
Has anybody tried the SP1 on an R1?
What are peoples preferences for pipe connectors (and why)? I'm thinking -10JIC and 5/8" hose but could go -8 and 1/2". Fir-tree
push fit or hose-clip/swage type unions?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 07:30 PM |
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There was a guide on here that someone did a while ago for doing this to a 5vy. I did it to mine last year works very well with a mocal hd cooler. 12
row I think I used. After a 20min track session the oil never tops 105 degrees
Parts used:
Mocal thermostatic plate plate
Mocal top cap
Oil filter union (from yamaha dealer) same as take off for oil filter.
Then your choice of hose, radiator and fittings.
I had to cut the yamaha union down slightly, and then get a small section machined out of the oil take off so that it would fit to the block. The
reason for having to machine it down is because when you screw the union in to the block the nut is slightly proud of the block, where as the one
under the oil filter is sat well behind the seating gave of the block. .
[Edited on 16/1/14 by Davey D]
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Davey D
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 07:42 PM |
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Thread is here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=127822
Whilst looking I found a thread where you was questioning the need for an oil cooler as you had done track days, and round france in the heat without
issues. ... What had changed your mind? 
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adithorp
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 08:22 PM |
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Ha ha, yes just found those threads myself.
My current engine is fine. Water temps hold steady but with an oil temp gauge now fitted it shows oil temps getting high (though bearable).
My new/replacement motor has been breathed on a bit (ex Virgin-Yamaha) and along with the extra HP and torque comes a bit more heat. That resulted in
some undesirable problems when I previously fitted it ...and blew it up! Cylinder 4 on the 5vy only has the water jacket around 3/4 of the cylinder
and the last bit is cooled by oil draining through the cam chain gallery. On the tuned engines they can experience 20% higher cylinder temp on no4. So
now it's been rebuilt (the same guy who built it originally) and going back in and among the lessons learned is... oil cooler required
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 08:46 PM |
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I noticed a massive improvement in temps after removing the original oil/water cooler, blocking the water supply take off, and fitting an external
cooler. The water has an easier time with just cooling the engine, and the external cooler does a vastly better job at cooling the oil.
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ashg
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 09:02 PM |
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when my oil stat failed it in the alps, it cost me an engine (well a bottom end) but i'm running a 2.0 turbo so temps on a hot day can rise very
quickly without enough cooling. just something to think about.
i now run mine without the stat and it quite happily stays at 85-90degC. personally i would say start without the stat and if the temps drop below
85degC then reduce the size of the cooler, if that still doesn't work then fit a stat as a last resort.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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adithorp
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 09:19 PM |
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Ash, was that a thermostatic sandwich plate or a separate one? Remember reading about it. I'm reluctant to let one failure affect the choice;
You could have had a cooler blow and do the same to your engine but I would still fit one.
Looking at the service manual I've spotted that the standard oil cooler feeds oil in through the centre bolt unlike the oil filter. As a result
if you use the sandwich plate stat (as Davey and the other threads) then isn't the stat the wrong way around?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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ashg
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| posted on 16/1/14 at 11:46 PM |
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mine was in the standard saab housing as saab fit oil coolers as standard. true one failure need not affect your decision, but thought i would just
put it out there that i had an issue.
in reality we only really use our cars in warmish conditions so i doubt you would have an issue keeping the oil warm without a stat, i certainly
don't and i have a 20 row cooler. no harm in fitting the cooler without the stat and seeing how it goes and vice versa.
my point of view is at the end of the day there is no point making it more complicated than it needs to be and adding extra parts that can fail if you
dont need them. maybe a little bit of experimentation is necessary when the weather clears up 
[Edited on 16/1/2014 by ashg]
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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adithorp
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| posted on 17/1/14 at 08:42 AM |
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Cheers Ash, all info is useful, and the more the better. I guess your problem is a reason to use an external 'stat; As long as you spot the
problem (before it fecks the motor) you can bypass it... just a lot dearer to buy.
I know we do tend to use them in warm weather but it's not unknown for me to go out on a frosty morning.Now I could gaffer tape the cooler those
days IF I remember... I've also had days when touring when it's varied from 30c+ to snow/sleet/hail and that could cause issues. If it was
just used on track and short trips I'd opt not to have a stat.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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rdodger
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| posted on 17/1/14 at 08:54 AM |
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Do it properly!
Use an inline stat then no worries with flow direction
I have an SP1 you can have foc so you can keep it reasonably locost
When do you need it?
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adithorp
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| posted on 17/1/14 at 09:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
Do it properly!
Use an inline stat then no worries with flow direction
I have an SP1 you can have foc so you can keep it reasonably locost
When do you need it?
Having given it a good course of thinking about, I don't think the direction of flow matters as it's a by-pass stat rather than just
open/shut and those who've done it havent had issues kind of prooves it.
So I'd just about decided... then you turn up and confuse issues 
Think you're right though... possibly... but it needs mounting... and more connectors... ARGHHH!
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 17/1/14 at 11:27 AM |
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Just go with the way on that thread i posted. A few of us have done it now, and its well proven to work. I bet there are more people on here who have
blown up the 5VY engine from just going on track than there are people on here who have had one of the mocal oil stats fail
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rdodger
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| posted on 17/1/14 at 02:30 PM |
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Adi
You can use barbed bsp fittings and Pirtek rubber hose (I think I have some of that spare too) Fittings wise it should only be £20 or so and an oil
cooler. I got mine off ebay.
Here you go!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-MGB-10-ROW-OIL-COOLER-J2C-/380802630693?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AMG&hash=item58a99b0
425
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOCAL-HEF93-8-90-1-2-BSP-OIL-COOLER-REMOTE-FILTER-HOSE-PIPE-FITTINGS-UNIONS-QF-/400604144152?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarPar
ts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AMG&hash=item5d45de2218
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOCAL-OT-1-1-2-REMOTE-OIL-COOLER-THERMOSTAT-CIVIC-VTEC-TYPE-R-S2000-CRX-SQ-/121251908979?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_S
M&fits=Car+Make%3AMG&hash=item1c3b2d4d73
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mocal-Setrab-Oil-Cooler-Rubber-Double-Mounting-Bobbins-X-2-/350890086163?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5
1b2adcf13
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adithorp
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| posted on 22/1/14 at 10:13 AM |
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All the bitsare now ordered.
I've gone for...
Mocal HD 19rowx235mm cooler
Mocal oil stat
This TAKE-OFF plate
-10 aeroquipe fittings and pipe
I went for the seperate 'stat so that if it does play up (and I spot it) I can at least by-pass it using a couple of -10/-10 couplings
that'll be stored in my touring kit. I decided to go for the flashy take-off rather than your one Rog because (a) it's it's a bit
flash and (b) isn't the Mocal SP1, Roger, the one you couldn't get a seal on?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 22/1/14 at 12:07 PM |
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If you go the route with the mocal SP1, and yamaha oil union, you have to machine some of the inside of the mocal away to make it sit far enough in to
seal against the block
Edit to say: just looked at that oil takeoff you have ordered, and it comes with a female fitting (designed to fit where an oil filter would), not a
bolt as is originally fitted to the standard cooler, so unless the original bolt fits, you will need to order one of the yamaha oil unions. Have you
removed the existing oil/water cooler to see what needs to be done?
If you do need to use the yamaha union, you needed to order the takeoff plate with 13/16 thread
[Edited on 22/1/14 by Davey D]
[Edited on 22/1/14 by Davey D]
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adithorp
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| posted on 22/1/14 at 01:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Davey D
If you go the route with the mocal SP1, and yamaha oil union, you have to machine some of the inside of the mocal away to make it sit far enough in to
seal against the block
Edit to say: just looked at that oil takeoff you have ordered, and it comes with a female fitting (designed to fit where an oil filter would), not a
bolt as is originally fitted to the standard cooler, so unless the original bolt fits, you will need to order one of the yamaha oil unions. Have you
removed the existing oil/water cooler to see what needs to be done?
If you do need to use the yamaha union, you needed to order the takeoff plate with 13/16 thread
[Edited on 22/1/14 by Davey D]
[Edited on 22/1/14 by Davey D]
Yeah, got that all in hand.
Are you sure about the 13/16th thread you've used though? Mine is M20x1.5 (very similar)
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 22/1/14 at 03:10 PM |
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I just ordered the same size as what was stated on the thread I linked to further up. Just double checked, and it was definitely 13/16 that I ordered.
How much difference is there in size between that and m20 x 1.5?
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adithorp
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| posted on 22/1/14 at 03:46 PM |
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Probably not a lot. I've got an old R1 cooler (leaked) and bolt and the thread matches with both an M20x1.5nut and an M20 extention bolt
I've got hanging about from another sandwich plate.
A quick google shows 13/16unf as 16tpi and rough convertion comes out as 20.3x 1.55mm so probably close enough to screw in.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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adithorp
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| posted on 17/3/14 at 11:13 PM |
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Just an update to show the take-off plate in situ...
Unlike the Mocal one it doesn't need machining out to make room for the boss' hexagon, just the bolt shortening by a few mm.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 17/3/14 at 11:49 PM |
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looks good. Is it all ready to test? How did you mount your cooler?
On the track day I did at the weekend I tried mine with/without front number plate. After a good session the oil was approx 7degrees hotter with the
front plate fitted! I was write surprised by that add there is still plenty of open grill with the plate fitted
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adithorp
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 09:12 PM |
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Not quite ready to run... as customers seem to be most inconsiderate and turn up with work for me to do. Needs the exhaust on, prop' connecting
and it should go.
The cooler is mounted in front of the rad. Sorry no pictures yet though I might remember to take some before I put the bonnet back.
7c does sound like a big jump but looking at your archive, the plate could be reducing the air intake by 10%ish and mostly in front of the cooler.
Think while connecting stuff back up, I found the reason why I got some strange readings from the oil temp gauge. The signal wire had a tiny rub
through where it had been chaffing 
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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adithorp
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| posted on 19/3/14 at 09:00 PM |
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Fired up this afternoon
Ran up to temp, but just before the fan cut in the pressure cap released Think it was just 'cos I overfilled it or it had air locked. Checked
it over and restarted and ran fine with fan cutting in/out until the oil stat opened.
If it all works OK in the morning it just needs the air filters, side pod, bonnet, under-trays back on and a wash... plus I've hatched a couple
of new plans; Some weather shielding on the open chassis around the front suspension to keep a bit of water and grit out and fit some cold air feeds
to the front calipers. So it may be a few days before it gets driven.
[Edited on 19/3/14 by adithorp]
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 20/3/14 at 07:25 AM |
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When ever i re-fill the coolant on my MNR ( done it too many times now ) i give all the radiator hoses loads of shakes, and squeezes to help
dislodge any possible air traps before i run it, and whilst it is running. seems to have worked well so far.
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adithorp
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 10:22 PM |
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It's run up to fan temp without problems a couple of time since... apart from I've now got a leak from the rad'. Not a problem as it
was new last year so still under warranty and replacement arrived this afternoon.
Couple more (crappy phone) pictures...
The cooler rad
and the oil stat
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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