oldmansteptoe
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| posted on 27/4/14 at 09:25 PM |
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xflow polo rad plumbing
Hi. Finished rebuilding my 1700 xflow and is now installed in car. My old escort rad was looking abit knackered so for £20 ive bought the polo vw302
rad which seems a popular choice.am now wondering how it all mounts and is plumbed up. I presume i now have to have a header tank of some kind, didnt
have one before. anybody with experience of installing this rad with a xflow? can point me in right direction? Cheers.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 28/4/14 at 03:38 PM |
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Waterpump outlet to rad bottom hose.
Stat housing hose to rad top hose.
If you have a heater there is a connection between inlet ports 2 and 3 and another on the waterpump. If you don' bung the up.
Bung up any spare holes on your new rad.
All you need on a x-flow is a simple expansion bottle of the suck type mounted somewhere near the stat housing with a rubber hose dangling in the
water. No need for a header tank, Ford never intended a x-flow to have one. All it does is complicate things.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/4/14 at 05:04 PM |
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What he said - apart from bunging up the place where the heater gets connected - put a hose between the two places. This makes the cooling system
work better when the engine is cold, and makes it easier to bleed air out as well.
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oldmansteptoe
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| posted on 29/4/14 at 07:52 PM |
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thanks fellas, appreciate the replies. so the middle hole in the polo rad i need to find something to screw in and bung up? the thermostat housings i
have are just single outlet to radiator so i need to get one with two outlets, one to rad, one to expansion bottle, and how do i then top up the
system? think im getting brain drain, this would have been simple a few years ago!!
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Trollyjack
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| posted on 29/4/14 at 10:05 PM |
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I went to scrappers and took out a couple of fanswitches that are normally in here Ialso put one in the front at the bottom dont leave the plastic one
in it will fail
TrollyJack
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oldmansteptoe
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| posted on 29/4/14 at 10:29 PM |
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thanks for that, i'll get myself some fan switches. cheers. just need to get some hoses sorted then 
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oldmansteptoe
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| posted on 1/5/14 at 06:54 PM |
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Just seen this on ebay
THERMOSTAT HOUSING ESCORT AND FIESTA
would this be a good housing to fit, pipe to top of rad and small outlet to expansion tank. with a pressurised cap on expansion tank and this housing
blanked off? cheers
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Neb
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 06:58 PM |
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Evening - searching on the forum has brought me to this thread for Xflow Cooling and has almost answered all my questions!
Same set-up as oldmansteptoe (Polo Rad) other than a thermostat housing with the rad/pressure cap in the top similar to this one:
http://www.burtonpower.com/special-thermostat-housing-fp610m.html
So:
Water pump hose to lower rad connection (large bore pipe)
Thermostat housing to upper rad connection (large bore pipe)
Link water pump heater connection to inlet manifold take off (medium bore pipe)
Existing bleed on polo rad capped off (small bore pipe)
Thermostat housing small bore connection to atmosphere or to a bottle for dumping/recouping water when rad cap opens?
Sorry just the bit i'm unclear on.
Can i use a ally drinking water bottle or something similar?
Does it need to be above any particualr level? i.e. the top of the rad?
TIA
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 07:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neb
Evening - searching on the forum has brought me to this thread for Xflow Cooling and has almost answered all my questions!
Same set-up as oldmansteptoe (Polo Rad) other than a thermostat housing with the rad/pressure cap in the top similar to this one:
http://www.burtonpower.com/special-thermostat-housing-
Thermostat housing small bore connection to atmosphere or to a bottle for dumping/recouping water when rad cap opens?
Think you will have a major leak if you do that, fit a header tank and feed the bleed hose to that or block the outlet
TIA
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britishtrident
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 07:50 PM |
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Unlike old Ford radiators the Polo rad has no built in header tank so spending less than £20 on a proper header tank is wise investment, new Renault
Clio tanks are very cheap on eBay.
The need for a header tank is nothing to do with the engine design and everything to do with coolant reserve capacity and preventing air locks.
The cooling fan switch boss on the Polo rad is M22 thread the same is many Fiats, Peugeot, and Vauxhall. You should look for a fan switch that
switches off at least 5c above the thermostat tempeatutre istr the early Fiat Panda fan switch is very suitable and connects with normal lucar
connectors.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Neb
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 08:06 PM |
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Thanks Gents.
Renault Clio Expansion Tank
This one?
It has 2 connections upper and lower.
Inlet manifold to the upper?
Water pump connection to the lower?
I would imagine this system keeps the flow in the right directions.
Cap the bleed on the rad?
Thermostat/rad cap pressure take off to atmosphere then? It's working like the Escort header on the standard rad then as it's above the
level of the 7 rad.
I have a fan switch already on the rad - i'll check the temp on it. It'll be running a low temp thermostat anyway. I have a few knocking
around from old Peugeot's which are the same thread. the 1300cc 106 rallye one is quite low switching from memory.
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Brian R
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 11:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by oldmansteptoe
Just seen this on ebay
THERMOSTAT HOUSING ESCORT AND FIESTA
Not advisable. The machining is substandard. We had one crack whilst tightening it up and upon removing and checking it it was warped.
Try to find a genuine Ford item which originally would've been fitted to a Fiesta.
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philfingers
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| posted on 9/7/14 at 11:28 PM |
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personally I'd use the clio tank, but use it unpressurised. That link to the Burton item is commonly known as an XR2 Mk1 coolant take off or
header. If you're old enough to remember, the XR2 Mk1 was a crossflow, the Mk2 was a CVH motor.
I would run the system with a proper pressure cap on the XR2 header, then run the bleed from that to the bottom of the clio tank- you'll need an
adaptor to make the 1/4" to 5/8" [rough guess] pipe outlets marry up. On the crossflow in both my previous Striker and Phoenix I ran this
system. Having tried with little success to run the clio tank pressurised [teeing into the heater 'loop' for connection and the XR2
header bleed for the other] with a plain sealing cap on the XR2 header. Bear in mind fluid level. It's worth making the clio tank mounting
very easy to disconnect, occaisionally you may need to op the XR2 header cap, and raise the clio tank to move the fluid back to the op on the XR2
header.
of course in the escort this was automatic as the motor sat lower than the rad
The true home of cars born under the Sylva name - http://jpsc.org.uk/forum
STM Phoenix R1
Sold-Sylva Striker 1300xf, 40s etc
Sold-Sylva Phoenix, 1300xf, BVH, 234cam, 2xDCOE 40s, live axle - 'old school', rally car and a few bikes
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Neb
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 09:09 AM |
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Thanks again for the responses gents.
 
Description
Is my interpretation..... But i have left the overflow from the rad cap (on the thermostat housing) to drain as otherwise the whole system is
pressurised? This system would have it as the same as our Escort rally car. The clio tank would be higher than the engine (or at least the level would
be) as it would be on the bulkhead and would act as the header tank and the water would flow through it.
The XR2 thermostat housing has a 20psi rad cap.
Would appreciate your thoughts on this set up.
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Brian R
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 09:28 AM |
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We use a similar system in the race cars. I'll take some photos when I'm at the workshop next. They barely drop below 6000 rpm and give
very little trouble
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philfingers
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 10:07 AM |
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I connect the inlet manifold direct to the small pipe on the WP housing. The Polo top small pipe, block it off and use it as a bleed if neccesary,
you probably won't need to as it sits below the XR2 header. Use a pressure cap on the XR2 header and route the small pipe off it to the bottom
of the clio tank. as mentioned before you'll need to machine up something to connect the two hose sizes. the top hose from the clio tank route
down to the ground. You can still use the pressure cap on the clio tank, as the top hose is down to the ground the bottle is just at atmospheric
pressure.
I had an other striker a few weeks ago running this system. had it idling on the drive for 30 mins, with a 88degC stat, and temp never went over about
92-94degc, fan cut in and out as required.
The problem I've had [with two XF Strikers'] using a pressurised expansion tank is the water level in the head keeps dropping, once cold
the stat is alway in air. Hence the reason for running the system with pressure cap on XR2 header
The true home of cars born under the Sylva name - http://jpsc.org.uk/forum
STM Phoenix R1
Sold-Sylva Striker 1300xf, 40s etc
Sold-Sylva Phoenix, 1300xf, BVH, 234cam, 2xDCOE 40s, live axle - 'old school', rally car and a few bikes
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DW100
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 02:28 PM |
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quote:
All you need on a x-flow is a simple expansion bottle of the suck type mounted somewhere near the stat housing with a rubber hose dangling in the
water. No need for a header tank, Ford never intended a x-flow to have one. All it does is complicate things.
Ford never intended you to use a polo radiator with the top or the radiator below the thermostat either
Things have moved on a bit since the 60's in terms of car technology
The crossflow was designed in the days when you serviced vehicles every 2000 miles, checked the water every time you used it and was knackered, worn
out and burning gallons of oil by 50,000 miles.
You could join a special Ford club if your car made it to 100,000 miles!!!
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 04:04 PM |
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Over a period of about 14 years I ran 2 Caterhams fitted with x-flow engines. The first had originally a 1700 which was replaced by a stronger 1660
unit. The second car started life with the 1660 in it (the 1700 went back into the first Caterham when I sold it) and was eventually fitted with an
1860 long stroke engine.
Throughout those 14 years I ran with exactly the same cooling system set up. Fiesta stat housing with pressure cap venting to an unpressurised blow
and suck bottle under it.
Never had a single issue in all that time. Some owners tried to reinvent the wheel and modify the system using an assortment of stat housing,
pressurised expansions etc but all they added was unnecessary complication to what should have been a simple set up. In all fairness most worked fine
but so did mine.
Both cars had conventional radiators with up/down fins. Neither had an airbleed or fan switch, not needed since both were in the Fiesta housing which
was higher than the radiator.
Fitting a Polo radiator with cross flow fins will change nothing other than the position of the bottom hose. If you use the Fiesta housing simply
block off the fan switch and bleed fittings, they are not needed.
My car is now fitted with a Zetec and if I was able to use a Polo radiator there would be one in my Caterham now. Unfortunately even the narrowest
version is too wide, the hoses would clash with the front of the chassis.
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alfas
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
Throughout those 14 years I ran with exactly the same cooling system set up. Fiesta stat housing with pressure cap venting to an unpressurised blow
and suck bottle under it.
Never had a single issue in all that time. Some owners tried to reinvent the wheel and modify the system using an assortment of stat housing,
pressurised expansions etc but all they added was unnecessary complication to what should have been a simple set up. In all fairness most worked fine
but so did mine.
.
must agree fully!!!
i recently owned a westfield SE with a tuned x/flow...the former owner used the car mainly for track days...and he converted the car from standard
ford rad to a polo rad.....
i do not know how he drove a single track day, because the car was running far too hot..
it turned out that he used the wrong polo rad...it looked identical to the pictures you usually find via google....but it was too small and too
slim.
i found an old escort rad in unknown condition in my storage...fitted it....and car run with normal temperature.
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Neb
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| posted on 11/7/14 at 09:42 AM |
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Thanks again gents for all your input, although now got a dilemma!
I have bought the clio tank. Polo rad is insitu.
I'm all for an easy life and will go with the simple set-up with the inlet hose connected into the water pump to start with and see how we get
on and keep the clio tank on hold & dangle the overflow from the thermostat housing into a water bottle.
Out of interest how do the Locost racer boys do it? Other than mostly sideways!
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philfingers
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| posted on 11/7/14 at 11:33 AM |
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that's fine or use the clio tank as the atmospheric overflow tank as per emails above. All easy to do. I'm away at the moment, but if
you need an alloy adapter made up for the connecting two different hoses LMK,
Phil
The true home of cars born under the Sylva name - http://jpsc.org.uk/forum
STM Phoenix R1
Sold-Sylva Striker 1300xf, 40s etc
Sold-Sylva Phoenix, 1300xf, BVH, 234cam, 2xDCOE 40s, live axle - 'old school', rally car and a few bikes
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Trollyjack
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| posted on 11/7/14 at 11:40 AM |
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Here is How I did it
 
Description
 
Description
 
Description
 
Description
Used Polo rad bleed at the top blanked off with a tyre shrader valve to let air out
Used cleo tank
At the thermostat housing removed the brass v/v to allow small breath back to header tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1v2K4ELRiC8
[Edited on 11/7/14 by Trollyjack]
TrollyJack
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puma931
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| posted on 11/7/14 at 02:15 PM |
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I have the same setup as this but header tank is behind the engine.
Where did you get your fan from?
quote:
Originally posted by Trollyjack
Here is How I did it
Description
Description
Description
Description
Used Polo rad bleed at the top blanked off with a tyre shrader valve to let air out
Used cleo tank
At the thermostat housing removed the brass v/v to allow small breath back to header tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1v2K4ELRiC8
[Edited on 11/7/14 by Trollyjack]
[Edited on 11/7/14 by puma931]
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Trollyjack
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| posted on 11/7/14 at 02:46 PM |
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Fan was from Fleebay
Located the header at the front to reduce pipe work to the back + it just fits under the nose cone
TrollyJack
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Neb
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| posted on 12/7/14 at 10:09 AM |
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Thanks trolley jack, especially for the pictures.
Spent 20mins or so looking at it last night and I think this is the way to go other than putting the bottle on the bulkhead.
I'd like to be able to open the bottle with out taking the nose off.
Did you blank the connection on the inlet?
Thanks again.
[Edited on 12/7/14 by Neb]
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