Shaunk10
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 posted on 7/5/14 at 07:41 PM |
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The complete list of all the parts needed to convert a pinto to a black top
Hi, I am looking for a complete guide on how to install a newer black top engine (zetec?) to a type9 and sierra rear diff set up on my mk indy.
Currently I have searched the web with not much progress?
Now my car at the moment has a exhaust that exits on the drivers side. And so on.
How much work is involved in swapping out the pinto for a newer engine. Does the st170 or st150 engine fit?
I would prefer the exhausts to exit on the same side I have heard I would need a dura torque for this to work. Are the st engines dura torque? If not
what is the most power they do from a dura torque.
Does anyone have a ball park figure for the total costing for doing a job like this. And could I do it in a couple of free weekends if all the parts
are ready?
I have a fairly good background with doing my own work on cars etc. but need some advice for this.
Thanks chaps!
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Eltel
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| posted on 7/5/14 at 07:57 PM |
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Everything on a zetec is on the opposite side to a pinto but a duratec exits on the same side as a pinto and as far as I'm aware the duratec
head has massive valves and upto 250bhp is easily achievable with just bolt on parts such as cams and throttle bodies, they seem to be the tuners
choice in the classic ford scene at the moment
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Shaunk10
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| posted on 7/5/14 at 09:34 PM |
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Nice summary mate thank you for that. I needed steering in the right direction so will have a look further
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ali f27
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| posted on 7/5/14 at 10:17 PM |
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Whoo bit of shite talk duratorque is diesal if you mean duratec will get the exhaust out the same side and is a good engine lots of potential but will
cost a bit to get working you need to decide what you want new bonnet nice steady reliabile engine or lots of new parts lots of real power and a few
grand duratec i did it and worth every penny.
Cheers Ali
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/5/14 at 02:18 PM |
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First off what car is it going in ?
Next if you've currently got a pinto them I'm guessing your not using an aftermarket fuel injected setup ? (megasquirt, Emerald, Omex,
and so on)
or are you running a distributorless spark like megajolt on the pinto ?
if you're already running an aftermarket ECU then its going to make things easier 
Some points to clear up:
* Yes the 'Zetec E' engines have the inlet/exhausts on the opposite sides to the pinto
* The ST170 engine has a duratec badge on it but is really a blacktop 'Zetec E' engine with a few tweeks and fancy variable cam timing so
it can be fitted in much the same way as the normal zetec E
but controlling the VVT is the issue (see loads of old threads on here, try coozer's old posts for starters)
* The ST150 fiesta engine is really a Duratec HE and has no parts in common with the zetec (its actually a mazda based engine) in fact its got the
inlet and exhaust the same way round as a pinto !
-btw the ST150 is probably the duratec of choice as it doesn't have a dual mass flywheel or EGR stuff that you need to deal with - but one out a
mondeo / focus will work just as well once you've dealt with those bits
* as above ford 'duratorq' engines are all diesels (the name actually covers a whole range of different engines)
------------------------------
Whichever engine you use you'll need to make new mounts - search the old threads on her if you need some tips
The Zetec E engines fit the std. 4cly ford bellhousing that comes with your pinto so you just need to sort the flywheel/starter, clutch and spigot
bearing - there are a few options on the exact combinations of parts - see the old threads on here for details.
The duratec HE (ST150) will require an aftermarket bellhousing to fit the type 9 and a clutch etc. to match
you can get these bits from places like RWD Motorsport and Retro Ford etc..
this also makes duratec's quite a bit more expensive to install
you may need to fit a smaller alternator, change the drive belt route and on the zetec even change the waterpump for one that rotates the opposite
direction (all dependant on what and how you install it - see the old threads for specific examples)
and for either of them you may need to modify the sump (depending on what car its going in) and you will require new exhaust manifold / primary pipes
as well as all the coolant pipes
The intake / spark side of things is totally dependant on what you plan to run the new engine with....
Are you planning to run it on a set of shiny new jenvey throttle bodies with a modern aftermarket ECU ?
or maybe just a single TB and a supercharger ?
or the stock Ford ECU ?
or twin webers / deloto's ?
or maybe a set of bike carb's with DIY manifold ?
have a good search through the old threads on this site - everything you need to know has been covered about 50 times over
[Edited on 8/5/2014 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 8/5/2014 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 8/5/2014 by mcerd1]
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Shaunk10
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 10:12 PM |
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Fantastic mcerd1, top bloke, appreciate that.
I really don't want to sound too stupid, I have spent ages now looking on the threads and websites but have yet to find a step by step guide or
anything to really help me out 
Now I have limited knowledge and skill.
I'm running a sierra dif and type 9 gearbox with the pinto engine all from a 1983 sierra estate.
I do really need to have the exhaust still leaving down the right hand side of the car as it is at the moment.
So what I have found is an alloy bell housing which connects the type 9 to a duratec engine £200
I have also found a spigot bearing for the gearbox shaft? Not sure if it's needed or what but that's £13
At home I have a inlet manifold I planned on fitting to my pinto and then fitting bike carbs (which I never bothered to do)
Now without sounding stupid can I carry on fitting this manifold to the new duratec engine, and would this then allow me to fit some bike throttle
bodies (again I take it these are basically fuel injected carbs?).
How would all the electronics work out? Would I have to scrap all the electronics from under the dash? So all the old sierra dials and cables? And
then replace them with a new type of dash from a donor car with the duratec engine? Would this make everything easier?
Would the new ecu just wire up to the battery? What about immobilisers etc?
Thanks for any help again
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ali f27
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 10:35 PM |
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If you want to fit a zetec you will have to accept that the exhaust comes out the other side so new bonnet or side panel it will cost you a bit to fit
a duratec but you can run it on carbs can help you but need to know what your budget is
Cheers Ali
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ali f27
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 10:37 PM |
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Have a look at rwd motorsport cheapest way to connect duratec to type 9
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mcerd1
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| posted on 13/5/14 at 08:15 AM |
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Can I ask what you budget is for this swap and what you’re looking to achieve for all this work ?
quote:
Originally posted by Shaunk10
I'm running a sierra diff and type 9 gearbox with the pinto engine all from a 1983 sierra estate.
So that’ll mean you’ve probably got a downdraft carb at the moment ? (one the air comes in the top of rather than the side)
quote:
Originally posted by Shaunk10
I do really need to have the exhaust still leaving down the right hand side of the car as it is at the moment.
In that case all the 1.8 / 2.0 zetec engines (inc. the ST170) will not work for you
see here for loads of info on these engine: http://www.toyne.org.uk/zetec-engine.html
(btw - swapping exhaust sides is propbably on of the easier jobs )
The smaller all alloy zetec SE engines (1.25, 1.4, 1.6, 1.7) woul keep the exhaust on the same side as the pinto – but these need an aftermarket
bellhousing just like the dutatec HE
quote:
Originally posted by Shaunk10
At home I have a inlet manifold I planned on fitting to my pinto and then fitting bike carbs (which I never bothered to do)
Now without sounding stupid can I carry on fitting this manifold to the new duratec engine, and would this then allow me to fit some bike throttle
bodies (again I take it these are basically fuel injected carbs?).
The manifolds (inlet & exhaust) are not interchangeable between the different engine types – you will need new ones for which ever engine you want
to fit (unless it’s another pinto )
throttle bodies are sort of the equivalent of carb’s in a fuel injected setup, basically they are just a valve that controls the amount of air going
in and they sometimes have the fuel injectors fitted to them (although these are in the manifold on some cars)
The throttle body itself is very simple compared to a carb, it’s the electronics that control the fuel and sparks that are complex on an EFI setup
The OE setup uses a single throttle body for all 4 cylinders (just like they would use a single carb), if you want max. power then 4 throttle bodies
(1 per cylinder) will give you a bit more for some additional cost..
quote:
Originally posted by Shaunk10
How would all the electronics work out? Would I have to scrap all the electronics from under the dash? So all the old sierra dials and cables? And
then replace them with a new type of dash from a donor car with the duratec engine? Would this make everything easier?
modern cars use dashboards that are controlled by the ECU - I’m sure its technically possible to use the newer dash if you keep the ford ECU, but
it’ll be a lot of work
Most people actually use aftermarket instruments, but these could set you back £300+ (the sky is the limit, depending on how fancy you want them)
your old sierra dials are fairly simple, the speedo is a mechanical drive from the gearbox so it’ll keep working whatever engine is attached, I think
you could find a way to connect up the rev counter (check this first, I’m not that familiar with the old sierra dash), the fuel gauge won’t be
affected and the rest of the warning lights etc should be fairly simple to rewire onto the duratec.
quote:
Originally posted by Shaunk10
Would the new ecu just wire up to the battery? What about immobilisers etc?
In a word – no
This thread was written for the ST170 originally, but I’ll give you an idea of whats involved in keeping the ford ECU:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=190440
[Edited on 13/5/2014 by mcerd1]
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ali f27
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| posted on 13/5/14 at 08:34 AM |
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The things that saved me money on duratec swap were bellhousing and flywheel from RWD i kept pinto cable clutch works fine and i used a manifold plate
and welded pinto manifold pipes to it i used throttle bodies and a dta but you could probs use mega jolt and bike carbs probs biggest cost work on
mine was to move to fuel injection tank fuel lines regulator dta ecu etc but next bit of tunning upgrading is now a lot easier as car chassis etc is
now set up for injection
Cheers Ali
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