coozer
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 07:18 PM |
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Rover V8 advise please...
So I bought one of these to replace the injection on my 3.9 Rover V8...
In preparation I got a new valley gasket and some other associated gaskets..
Before i remove the injection inlet I thought I best tidy up the crud on the rocker covers and thought about giving them a polish as well..
On removal I'm a bit curious as to this:
Now the engine has been sitting for a couple years in my garage but I have had it running and knew the source (a 90) before I got it.
Is it just a general clean up required? Not looking forward to taking the valley gasket off and peaking inside...
However its no where near as bad as the first 3.5 (that didnt run) I picked up...
Thanks,
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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mark chandler
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 08:19 PM |
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Looks pretty typical of an old rover V8
When I pulled mine apart I pulled the heads and dropped in a trough with drain cleaner to pull out the black grunge, and worked diesel into the valley
with the sump off.
The mess is mostly down to condensation, if out of a 90 then expect low compression, have a look by the dipstick and hope to see 9.35 stamped on a
flat with engine number, if 8.1 then it will have a rubbish cam and maybe smaller valves 
If 9.35 then budget for a new cam and followers to pep it up  the lobes for 7 & 8 will be shot.
[Edited on 9/8/14 by mark chandler]
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 08:28 PM |
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Looks like its had hard life, but not unusual to get Black Death in the rocker covers. Main thing is, clean the sump and strainer, as its common to
have low oil pressure due to sludge blocking the oil pickup.
If its from a land rover it's probably low compression, 8.13 CR, ideally you need the 9.35/1 CR version.
Good luck with the Holley, not a fan, if I was going to recommend a cheap good carb for a mild rover it would be a dgas weber off a 3.0 Essex v6.
Simple plate can be made to mount on a Holley inlet, or the stock SU inlet can be machined to suit the ford weber.
We've been tuning afew rovers recently, have a look :-) www.facebook.com/baileyperformance
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 08:36 PM |
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What mark said above is spot on :-)
The compression is set by the pistons, so you can swap for the 9.35/1 or if you can find some 10.25/1.
After the "vitesse block" all valve sizes are the same.
If I was you I would use the front cover off the engine, then look out for a 4.6 out of a range rover, the 3.5/3.9 cover will bolt onto the 4.6 but
you will need to change the cam. That way you can use the dizzy and carb if you want to avoid injection.
You will also need a spacer to go over the end of the 4.6 crank, to an able you to use the 3.5 bottom pulley (the 4.6 crank nose is longer)
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coozer
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 08:37 PM |
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It came out of a highly modded mint 90 but I believe it started life in a Range Rover, its got a zf 4 speed auto attached.
Last thing I wanted to do was strip it, got the thing for next to nowt and its currently sitting in the chassis, I have very little room and if I take
it out again I'll have to dismantle the suspension and everything to stand the chassis back up against the wall arrrrgggghhhhhh..
Yes, it has 9.35 1 stamped above the engine number
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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coozer
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 08:41 PM |
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Thanks Bailey, ideally I want to put bike carbs on it but the money some people want for a manifold is eye watering.
Picked the Holley fairly cheap, it is sitting on a modified SU manifold and the dizzy is redundant in favour of an Edis 8 and coil packs.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 08:49 PM |
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No prob coozer, if its 9.35 thats good news, maybe sump off and a good clean and you'll be fine.
The weber works really well, nice idle, the stock Essex 3.0 jets are close.
EDIS8 and megajolt would be a good plan, but I'm sure you know the dizzy drives the oil pump so you need to keep it in place.
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coozer
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 08:56 PM |
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Yeah, leaving it in, and just liked your fb page
Can you recommend a cam for it? Might as well do the cam and chain while I'm on... doh!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 09:00 PM |
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Thanks for the FB like :-)
What sort of rpm are you planning on using, what weight is the car, and what will you be using it for?
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coozer
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 09:45 PM |
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Its a Jago Jeep with Range Rover 4x4 axles etc, so expecting it to be way under 1,000kg. The heaviest parts are the transmission and axles.
Mainly road use, a little green laning maybe, nothing outrageous..
Just looking for smooth torque and the most important thing, the reason I went for a V8 is the soundtrack
And good mpg.. fell over there laughing
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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coozer
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 10:00 PM |
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OR! Would I be better off using the injection manifold with the MS2 I have lying about??
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 10:14 PM |
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Oh yes, you would!
Efi is, and aways will be better then using carbs of any kind!! :-)
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coozer
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 10:20 PM |
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Thanks, so now I'm thinking.. (through the mist..)
Which cam? Carbs or injection for torque? Different ones or the same? (future proofing, still WANT bike carbs on it)
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 9/8/14 at 10:27 PM |
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If your going to run a stock Efi plenum then the piper 285 will work great, give you around 200bhp with good idle.
Will pull like a train, I have used this can in several rovers, including turbo.
On Efi you can get away with a more hairy cam than you can with carbs, plus the stock plenum flows very well as standard,
The standard injectors are fine, so is the regulator
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robinj66
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 07:19 AM |
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If you don't want to strip it right down then remove the rocker gear and clean the black crud off (Gunk, Jizer, Diesel etc). Also remove the
baffles from the rocker covers and clean behind them. Also the flame trap if fitted.
You can visually check the cam lobes by removng the inlet manifold. The piper 285 cam is a good one but also check out the choices from
Real Steel . I would recommend using a composite type inlet manifold over the tin ones. Also
rubber gaskets for the rocker covers are less prone to leaks than the cork ones and are re-usable
If you're changing the cam then you would be well advised to change the cam followers as well. If you do change the cam then the front cover
has to come off in which case you can check the timing chain for slackness.
Whatever you do there is always another step - the art is to be able to stop changing bits
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 08:33 AM |
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Last bit of advice, IF you are changing the cam (AND followers, naturally an intellect like yourself would not leave the old ones on a new cam) then
DO NOT remove the old ones from the top as wear on the bottom of the followers can and DOES score the follower bores.
HTH
Enjoy.
JGG.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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Andy S
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 08:42 AM |
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The sludge is typical of a high mileage motor cheap oils and poor service intervals - RV8 is a oil volume engine not oil pressure and will never have
high gauge pressures.
The RV8 is head flow restricted and no cam will give any worthwhile power increase unless the heads are ported to remove the restriction an inch in
behind the valves.
Depending on the lift of any cam you may also need the valve guides shortening so that the cap does not hit the valve guide tops - it may at best only
destroy the seals.
As the 10.5's or 10.25 pistons were only available in the very early 3.5's you would actually suffer some loss of compression due to the
piston being some 5mm smaller in diameter... They are also very old and a pretty weak design.
The manifold you have is a modified standard Rover V8 manifold with a block of ally welded on to take the Holley it will likely run worse than
SU's.
38 DGAS on a RV8 is worse than twin SU's - they only have 27mm chokes and stangled the Capri they were fitted on let alone another 33% more
capacity.
Holleys are basic out of the box and need a couple of kits on them to get the best from them - a secondary metering plate - centre pivots bowls etc.
and can perform very well. Tuners are lazy these days as sitting down pressing buttons is easier than leaning in a hot engine bay changing jets.
If looking at off road then stick with the SU's - that's why LR chose them and they know a thing or two about off roaders.
Andy
[Edited on 10/8/14 by Andy S]
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 09:18 AM |
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Andy your correct about the pistons, my error, I miss read the start of the thread and assumed the engine was a 3.5.
The 38dgas does feed a mild/stock 3.5, I think the reason you can get away with it is both throttle feed a common plenum and the SUs are split within
the pent roof manifold left and right.
Agree about the SUs, good carbs, if you have a good set then thay take some beating.
The piper 285 goes straight in a stock engine as long as you use the piper springs, and does give very good power gains even on stock heads.
We've fitted 2, both timing up on standard marks (within 2 degrees) so no need to buy adjustable pulley. (But always chk)
Holley carbs are a pain to setup, and not worth the bother, weber 500 is a better bet if you want a big carb.
The stock Efi plenum with aftermarket Ecu is likely to be better than any carb, and are cheap.
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 09:31 AM |
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For the sake of cost, when I built my supercharged 4.6 for my Cosworth sierra I bought a stock new 3.9 cam - very cheap - depending on what coozer
wants power wise it mite be an option, the can was about £30 as I remember. From v8 developments.
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coozer
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 10:02 AM |
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Some good advise there chaps, thanks very much.
Thing is I know the rv8 is not the most powerful and so a bitt loath to spend any money on it.
The reason I went with it is a, I wanted a v8 b, it came connected to a gearbox and 4x4 system, cheap!
If I was going to spend any money it would be on a ford 302 or a Chevy...
Think I'll give it a sump off clean out and stick with the injection but maybe replace the rover ecu with my ms2..
Piper can kits are too expensive so as long as the one in there is OK its staying.
Sump is dry and rusty so could do with derusting and painting anyway.
Thank,
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 10:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Some good advise there chaps, thanks very much.
Thing is I know the rv8 is not the most powerful and so a bitt loath to spend any money on it.
The reason I went with it is a, I wanted a v8 b, it came connected to a gearbox and 4x4 system, cheap!
If I was going to spend any money it would be on a ford 302 or a Chevy...
Think I'll give it a sump off clean out and stick with the injection but maybe replace the rover ecu with my ms2..
Piper can kits are too expensive so as long as the one in there is OK its staying.
Sump is dry and rusty so could do with derusting and painting anyway.
Thank,
Steve
Seems sensible to me!
If cam is knackered, OEM ones are available cheap, so are lifters.
Main thing is get all the sludge out of the sump and valley.
I suppose you could compression test it now to give you some idea of the state of the bottom end.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 12:22 PM |
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Sump off, valley out and flush the crude through, it's also worthwhile drilling a couple of holes through the front of the block timing cover as
it helps lubricate the oil pump shaft.
Unless you get the heads skimmed using composite gaskets will reduce compression, on one I built up on a 4.6 block I advanced the cam by filing a new
woodruff key slot in the crank gear, easy to do and 5 degrees advance with a 3.9 cam will improve low to mid range torque.
Sit new followers sit in a tin of oil for 24 hours before fitting, saves horrible pumping up rattles
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froggy
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 03:43 PM |
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I've got a brand new set of high rev lifters , they were new in 1998 and have been sitting in a big jar full of oil since so should be fine . Il
have a look for them at work tomorrow.
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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coozer
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 05:28 PM |
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Thanks, the more I'm reading about this the more I'm dreading it!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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