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Author: Subject: Toyota Yaris. Hybrid or not?
smart51

posted on 15/6/15 at 03:55 PM Reply With Quote
Toyota Yaris. Hybrid or not?

My wife wants a Toyota Yaris and I notice that the hybrid version is not much more than the petrol (an extra 2100 on the new list price).

Now I've worked out that 2100 buys you 400 gallons of petrol. If the hybrid system saves you 10MPG then 4000 miles pays back the extra. Even if it's only 2.5MPG extra, you've still paid back the extra cost in a year, so it's a goer financially. And as her job takes her across the city a few times a day, she'll be doing ideal journey types for a hybrid.

So here's the big question. Should I recommend it to her? Is it likely to cause problems down the line or are hybrids well sorted by now?

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rusty nuts

posted on 15/6/15 at 04:02 PM Reply With Quote
Hybrid may be in a lower road tax bracket as well?
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dinosaurjuice

posted on 15/6/15 at 04:31 PM Reply With Quote
dont think youve worked that out right... how can 4000 miles cost 2100 in fuel






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David Jenkins

posted on 15/6/15 at 05:13 PM Reply With Quote
The biggest problem with hybrids (for me) is that the batteries have a finite life - how much will a new battery pack cost, in a few years time?





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smart51

posted on 15/6/15 at 06:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
dont think youve worked that out right... how can 4000 miles cost 2100 in fuel


OK, now I've done the sums properly, it would take her 3 years to pay back the difference if the official MPG figures can be believed or 4.5 years if you assume the hybrid only makes half as much difference as they say it does. It's still about fair enough.

What's I'm really after is about the batteries and hybrid system. Are they generally reliable? How long will the batteries last?

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geoff shep

posted on 15/6/15 at 07:22 PM Reply With Quote
Still can't see it, unless she does a phenomenal mileage. Assuming 10,000 miles per year, and 1.15 per litre:

10,000 miles @50mpg = 200gal = 1040
10,000 miles @60mpg = 167gal = 871
10,000 miles @70mpg = 143gal = 746
10,000 miles @80mpg = 125gal = 650

So from 60mpg to 80mpg you save 220 which means it would take nearly 10 years to save 2100.

[Edited on 15/6/15 by geoff shep]






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morcus

posted on 15/6/15 at 07:50 PM Reply With Quote
How are you buying the car and how long will you keep it? if you plan to have the car just a few years it will be under warrantee the whole time, in which case I'd have no fears about the hybrid systems as they should be covered.

As to the cost, have a look around and see what your dealer is offering as you might find the actual difference in cost is a lot more, or a lot less than 2k because of what they've got in stock or what they want to shift. On a similar note have a look at predicted depreciation differences between the two. Its not an exact science but they may depreciate at different rates making one of the cars a much better prospect (I would like to clarify though I've never take depreciation into account when buying a car but I've also never taken fuel economy into account either). If you go for PCP it will make a big difference.

The final suggestion, get her to have a go in both. If you're buying new any dealer worth his salt should have no issue with this, especially if he can get you in the pricier car.





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smart51

posted on 15/6/15 at 07:59 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by geoff shep
Still can't see it, unless she does a phenomenal mileage. Assuming 10,000 miles per year, and 1.15 per litre:

10,000 miles @50mpg = 200gal = 1040
10,000 miles @60mpg = 167gal = 871
10,000 miles @70mpg = 143gal = 746
10,000 miles @80mpg = 125gal = 650

So from 60mpg to 80mpg you save 220 which means it would take nearly 10 years to save 2100.

[Edited on 15/6/15 by geoff shep]


She's done 11k miles a year in her current car and we're paying 1.179 a litre at the moment.
The standard Yaris does 43 MPG around town and the Hybrid claims 91 (I'm using half the difference = 67).

4.5 years @11,000 per year = 49500 miles
49500 miles @ 43 MPG = 1151 gallons, 5233 litres or 6149
49500 miles @ 67 MPG = 739 gallons, 3359 litres or 3960
total saving = 2189

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smart51

posted on 15/6/15 at 08:06 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
How are you buying the car and how long will you keep it? if you plan to have the car just a few years it will be under warrantee the whole time, in which case I'd have no fears about the hybrid systems as they should be covered.


Her current car was bought at 10 months old direct from Citroen (they had a scheme where companies leased them for 6 months and put a years miles on them. There was a dozen to choose from). We've had it for about 4 years. I bought my car cash last year. I was going to use a broker, but my local dealer offered me a very special price. I might try the same thing again. Toyota offer a 5 year warranty, which is probably about as long as we'd keep it.


quote:
Originally posted by morcusThe final suggestion, get her to have a go in both. If you're buying new any dealer worth his salt should have no issue with this, especially if he can get you in the pricier car.


She had one as a hire car for a week and liked it. I'll get her to drive a hybrid and see if she gets on with the CVT.

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Slimy38

posted on 15/6/15 at 08:30 PM Reply With Quote
I'm sure they proved the hybrid is nowhere near as good as it is claimed. The Polo Bluemotion (as an example) gives better mileage in the real world.

I take it you definitely want new? Going for a 2 or 3 year old petrol Yaris would give you the same couple of K saving (if not more).

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smart51

posted on 15/6/15 at 08:44 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I'm sure they proved the hybrid is nowhere near as good as it is claimed. The Polo Bluemotion (as an example) gives better mileage in the real world.


Hybrids are of no value if you're doing long steady speed driving. The hybrid system just switches off once the battery is charged. That said, Toyota hybrids use an Atkinson cycle engine which is a bit more efficient. Its around town where hybrids come into their own.

The official MPG figures are bogus. They're allowed to fully charge the battery artificially so the first mile of the MPG test is done with the engine switched off. Take the 91MPG figure with all the salt in the Shap gritting depot.

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38I take it you definitely want new? Going for a 2 or 3 year old petrol Yaris would give you the same couple of K saving (if not more).
I'd take a year old car if it came at a good price. We did last time. But as she uses it for work several times a day, it has to be 100% reliable. I don't want the bother of changing it every couple of years. A new(ish) one at a good discount works out reasonably well for 4 or 5 years.

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David Jenkins

posted on 15/6/15 at 09:23 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38I take it you definitely want new? Going for a 2 or 3 year old petrol Yaris would give you the same couple of K saving (if not more).
I'd take a year old car if it came at a good price. We did last time. But as she uses it for work several times a day, it has to be 100% reliable. I don't want the bother of changing it every couple of years. A new(ish) one at a good discount works out reasonably well for 4 or 5 years.


Absolutely - the first-year depreciation is horrendous. I plan to replace my Yaris with an Auris in the near future, and I'll be looking for something about 1 year old with very low mileage. There will still be 4 years warranty left.

When I looked on my local dealer's website they had dozens and dozens of Yarises (Yari?) spread across their various dealerships (and lots of Aurises (auri? )





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britishtrident

posted on 16/6/15 at 07:25 AM Reply With Quote
The problem with all batteries is the life expectancy is unpredictable, but istr Toyota give a very long warranty transferable on the battery pack.
One major snag at least with the last gen of the Prius was that the heater was infective in stop start driving.

The Atkinson cycle is not really a thermodynamic cycle at all it is just an increase in the offset of the crank centreline from that of the cylinder bores and a longer duration on the inlet cam. If it produced worthwhile results all car manufacturers would have done it years ago.





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Lightning

posted on 28/6/15 at 11:51 AM Reply With Quote
Unless they ban diesels from city centres or you do a lot of city driving I'd get any diesel
I have a plug in hybrid which is fantastic in towns and cities where it just uses electric
Country roads c 40to50 mpg
Motorways less than 30 once you've used all the electricary
Wife's c class merc does 61 on a run ????

It's party piece is over 80mph the motors and the 2 litre petrol engine join in and it flys

[Edited on 28/6/15 by Lightning]





Steve

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coyoteboy

posted on 28/6/15 at 05:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

The Atkinson cycle is not really a thermodynamic cycle at all it is just an increase in the offset of the crank centreline from that of the cylinder bores and a longer duration on the inlet cam. If it produced worthwhile results all car manufacturers would have done it years ago.



It works on hybrid engines because it is effective at very specific ranges of engine RPM - it doesn't work in engines used for normal duties because they operate over a more varied range.

And, FWIW, almost all hybrids are currently atkinson cycle engies.

All hybrids currently, I think, parallel the petrol and electric during high demand and hybrids will never make sense for motorway driving or long distance mono-speeders - they get their advantages from regen braking and primarily using the motors for accel. On a long high speed trip you find the engine is running as a gen to feed the motors, which has stacked inefficiencies which are not overwhelmed by brake regen or accel efficiency improvement.

[Edited on 28/6/15 by coyoteboy]





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Ninehigh

posted on 29/6/15 at 01:14 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
dont think youve worked that out right... how can 4000 miles cost 2100 in fuel


OK, now I've done the sums properly, it would take her 3 years to pay back the difference if the official MPG figures can be believed or 4.5 years if you assume the hybrid only makes half as much difference as they say it does. It's still about fair enough.

What's I'm really after is about the batteries and hybrid system. Are they generally reliable? How long will the batteries last?


Iirc the batteries are warranted for 8 years.






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smart51

posted on 15/7/15 at 07:56 AM Reply With Quote
We did back to back test drives of the shortlist yesterday. The corsa failed the boot test. They've panneled in the wheel arches so you can't fit a piano keyboard in the boot (SWMBO is a music teacher). The Yaris was good was good. The ride is a bit firm and the interior space a little bit tight but we were happy enough to get one. but then we drove the Peugeot 208. I asked the Toyota salesman about real worked MPG saying that the other cars we were looking at all offered 50+ urban MPG. He changed the subject to the 5 year warranty.

The facelifted 208 is much bigger inside, drives more nicely and has a a proper gearbox. The salesman recognised me from last time and offered me an 11.5% discount without me having to ask. We had an intersting test drive. Some girl on a mobile walked into the road from behind a parked transit without looking. We stopped very quickly. She didn't even flinch.

I'd be happy to have the Yaris hybrid, but the 208 is a better car and for a lot less cash. With the Pug's official urban fuel consumption of 51 MPG, I suspect there's not that big a fuel saving to be had from the Hybrid, so we'll be getting the normal car.

[Edited on 15-7-2015 by smart51]

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DapperRob

posted on 15/7/15 at 08:35 AM Reply With Quote
You could buy the hybrid... but then you've got to start splashing out on Quorn sausages, hemp clothing, wooden bracelets and the like.
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smart51

posted on 15/7/15 at 08:37 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DapperRob
You could buy the hybrid... but then you've got to start splashing out on Quorn sausages, hemp clothing, wooden bracelets and the like.


common misconception. hybrids are bought by people who don't feel the need to constantly assert their masculinity.

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cliftyhanger

posted on 15/7/15 at 09:09 AM Reply With Quote
But have you factored depreciation? That can be a killer on some cars, peugeot I suspect may be heavy, but offset by initial costs. Toyota stuff tends to be quite sought after, and I expect a hybrid to hold its value rather better, especially if changing after 3-5 years.


quote:
Originally posted by smart51
We did back to back test drives of the shortlist yesterday. The corsa failed the boot test. They've panneled in the wheel arches so you can't fit a piano keyboard in the boot (SWMBO is a music teacher). The Yaris was good was good. The ride is a bit firm and the interior space a little bit tight but we were happy enough to get one. but then we drove the Peugeot 208. I asked the Toyota salesman about real worked MPG saying that the other cars we were looking at all offered 50+ urban MPG. He changed the subject to the 5 year warranty.

The facelifted 208 is much bigger inside, drives more nicely and has a a proper gearbox. The salesman recognised me from last time and offered me an 11.5% discount without me having to ask. We had an intersting test drive. Some girl on a mobile walked into the road from behind a parked transit without looking. We stopped very quickly. She didn't even flinch.

I'd be happy to have the Yaris hybrid, but the 208 is a better car and for a lot less cash. With the Pug's official urban fuel consumption of 51 MPG, I suspect there's not that big a fuel saving to be had from the Hybrid, so we'll be getting the normal car.

[Edited on 15-7-2015 by smart51]

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wiggywoo

posted on 15/7/15 at 07:05 PM Reply With Quote
hybrid
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