Mr_B
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| posted on 10/12/04 at 08:22 AM |
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Honda/Rover 800 2.7
Hey i'm sure theres someone on here using one of these engines. I want to install one in a Rover SD1 but I dont know what gearbox to use, or
even if its possible. Can anyone advise? I'm thinking of using a type-9 box and trying to attach the bellhousing from the 800 (manual box). Any
suggestions will be gratefully recieved. Ace site by the way.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 10/12/04 at 11:31 AM |
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Well I've got no idea about gearboxes, but it sounds good
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Peteff
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| posted on 10/12/04 at 11:57 AM |
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I'm impressed that you've still got a Rover SD1 in one piece . If you can get the crank spigot bearing to match the gearbox input shaft
and find a clutch plate to fit the Honda and match the type 9 spline the only thing to worry about is the depth of the bellhousing and drilling it to
match the type9 bolt pattern. You might be able to get an adaptor plate or make one to fit the two bolt patterns together. Sounds simple doesn't
it? Good luck anyway.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 10/12/04 at 12:12 PM |
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its Liam
hes not on much tho
try an email if hes listed it
u2u as last resort
atb
steve
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britishtrident
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| posted on 10/12/04 at 10:00 PM |
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A more reliable engine than the awful Honda 2.5 V6 but still not up to Hondas usual standards, also the reall BHP is some way short of the actual.
A 4 cylinder Rover M or T series 16v would be an easier fit -- mates to an SD1 gearbox if the correct backplate is used, claimed bhp is more
realistic -- 140 bhp in standard multi point injection form or 170 to 192 in turbo depending on version. it is also more reliable and smoother
than the V6.
[Edited on 10/12/04 by britishtrident]
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 10/12/04 at 11:00 PM |
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Or you could always use one of those very nice very cheap Alfa engines 
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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phelpsa
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| posted on 10/12/04 at 11:10 PM |
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or then again you could go bike engined.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 11/12/04 at 11:33 AM |
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our you could take a leaf from adam's rubber band car project.
lots of advantages :
no sva reqd
no tax
no mot
no insurance
all you need is a really really big spring !
atb
steve
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zetec
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| posted on 11/12/04 at 12:01 PM |
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Or even a Rover V8, got to be a lot less hassle. Or even a Meteor tank engine like that bloke in PPC.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 11/12/04 at 02:02 PM |
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Steve, I think his car is gonna be more than 400mm long, so it is not eligable
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Mr_B
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| posted on 13/12/04 at 08:57 AM |
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??????
I dont want a bike engine (in an SD1?) or an alfa twink or an oil-haemhorraging Rover 4-cyl (which in my view is definitely NOT smoother or more
reliable than the Honda V6) nor do i want a Rover V8 (dont like pushrods)!
What i want is the silky-smooth and oiltight Honda V6 in a hard-as-nails-looking series one SD1. This is alleged to be 177hp normally, not the highest
bhp/litre but i imagine with some nice manifolding for the rwd installation this can be improved somewhat (the standard manifolds are very rudimentary
scaffolding-pipe jobs).
I think i am going to try to use a Type 9 box, and modify the Honda bellhousing to attach to this box.
I think the Honda V6 is used in a couple of Cobra reps also but i can't find anything other than a picture of one which supposedly has the
engine in, which doesnt help me much.
i'd love to know how this Liam chap is doing it but I cant get hold of him.
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ned
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| posted on 13/12/04 at 09:31 AM |
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what about a nice beemer engine?
Ned.
ps would come with a gearbox that fits
[Edited on 13/12/04 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Mr_B
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| posted on 13/12/04 at 11:23 AM |
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A BMW motor in a rover? Blasphemy!!!!
(yes, i know the 75 diesel has a BM motor).
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ned
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| posted on 13/12/04 at 11:25 AM |
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bmw did own rover at one point
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Liam
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| posted on 13/12/04 at 02:49 PM |
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Hello...
Yep it's me. Dunno what BT means - these engines are excellent. Having been part of a community that actually uses them for a few years (the
Rover 800 mailing list - oh yes!) and having owned them myself (both V6 and 4-pot) you get to know the real picture. In a few years and
probably...billions of emails about rover 800s I dont think I've heard of a single failed 2.7. OK one failed in a kit car cos it didn't
have enough oil in it. Loads of owners have V6s with over 200,000 and a few were over 250,000. They only have one problem ever - noisy tappets.
I originally joined the list to ind out about the rover KV6 cos i'd heard about it in a kit car mag. I was immediately told to avoid it like
the plague and use the honda.
The 4-pot is also very good too - mine (non turbo) had 180,000 on it and still pulled amazingly smoothly all the way to 6500. But generally those
engines arent as reliable as the V6, specially the turbo, mainly with oil leaking and gasket problems. Definately are not smoother than the V6
either.
As for power the quoted 177 seems reasonable. They go like stink compared to a 2 litre with 145 quoted for the later ones. The latest 2.7s with cats
are lower compression and power so maybe that's where that rumour comes from?
The 2.7s dont respond amazingly to a freer exhaust and airbox (only 6-8 bhp rr'd) mainly cos the dual length standard intake runners
aren't that great at flowing and the cam is extremely mild. With all that removed and allowing it to stretch to 7000 (no probs) you can get
more power. I've seen one on carbs in the back of a 205 showing just over 200bhp on a rr printout.
I'm probably gonna ditch the standard intake on mine and make runners into two plenums (one on top of each rocker cover) and two throttle bodies
(from a 1.4 k-series about ideal size). Renault V6 in the middy clio is like this. I'll get it running with megasquirt n' edis.
Main reason for this is cos i want to lightly turbo it later which will need remappable management anyway, and because wiring up the standard
management is a bitch. Unlike, for example, a lovely alfa V6 for which the ecu comes out the car on it's own wiring and plugs straight back
into the engine, the clever guys at Rover entagled the ecu wiring with the entire loom of the car. Getting what you need is a horrible stripping down
job of the standard loom or rewiring from scratch starting at the three big plugs on the engine loom. I've got a massive wad of diagrams to
help but i probably wont bother with it. OK aftermarket management is still lots of work - but it's better work!
There is no RWD gearbox which means more work. I'm doing a 4x4 so i'm stuck with the non-removable bellhousing of the cossy MT75. So i
made an adaptor plate which also holds the rear engine mounts (this is where they are in the rover). Clutch spacing in this case means a custom
flywheel but I have a cnc machinist friend doing me a nice ally one.
If you use a box with removable bellhousing then it would be easier to chop that about. The honda manual box doesn't have much of a bellhousing
being a FWD box. You'd want to chop off a couple of inches (which also holds the starter motor), chop off the right mount of your type-9
bellhousing and weld the two together with a bit of plate between. All nice and concentric of course. Then you can keep the honda flywheel clutch
and starter. If you cant find a ford-splined pressure plate the same size as the honda clutch I'll eat my shorts. Knock up a spigot support
(bit of oilite bush will do) and job's a good'un!
If I can be of any more detailed help let me know. To be honest, I've recently come round to the alfa 3 litre V6. Beautiful, ally like the
honda and a doddle to get running. If you can find an old alfa6 RWD box it bolts straight on - but good luck. I'm sticking with the honda cos
it's more reliable and a 90 degree V so it's low enough to fit under an unfettled seven bonnet. All the rest are really tall. But you
may want to consider the other options as the honda isn't the easiest installation. Phantom Automotive use the 2.7 in their GTR kit so maybe
they have a loom they can sell if you've got some money.
Well, hope that helps. If ya still want to shove the honda in the SD1 after that then good luck to ya! Great engine!
Liam
[Edited on 13/12/04 by Liam]
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 13/12/04 at 03:58 PM |
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after going to see a friend today with a recovery business - I know of two v6 engines that are for sale - one a manual and one an auto - if you want
more info U2U me .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 13/12/04 at 08:56 PM |
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If you change your mind and like the idea of a V6 alfa, i just bought two complete cars. One for £150 and the other £142.
We have just made a bellhousing to fit a type 9 from steel and should be making some alloy ones soon.
And the do sound nice.
12v cloverleaf 200bhp standard
24 230 ish
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 09:46 AM |
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Just as a matter of thought, any-one considered the Honda Legend as a doner for a mid-engined beasty. Doner is/would be longitudinal engine with gear
box directly behind AND FWD. I think it would make a pretty neat/compact instalation. Oh and I believe they were 3.0 V6. (but if wrong I stand
corrected.)
Anyway gearbox would also mate to rover 827 lump.
Enjoy.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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brunocrossley
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 09:38 AM |
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The Rover 2.7 has been fitted to Land Rovers to be eligible for ARC off-road competitions. (anything with a Rover issued engine number meets the
regs). I think the chap in our branch used an R380 five speeder. It was reputedly very quick, but not as effective as the previous V8, or the
subsequently fitted 210hp diesel. I think the injection was problematical as well.
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Liam
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 06:49 PM |
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Early legends used the 2.7 transverse just the same as the rover. Later ones had a 3.2 or even 3.5 (up to 240 bhp I think) longitudinal as Jolly
said. But the box isn't a transaxle - it sends the drive forward via a prop to a diff on the sump. Imagine the front of a sierra 4x4
system.
OK for a middy with a very long rear overhang!
Also the box for a 3.2 or 3.5 wont fit the 2.7. 3.2 and 3.5 are totally different blocks with entirely different bolt patterns. On this assumption,
some guy got as far as removing the 2.7 from his rover and lowering in a 3.2, only to find the gearbox wouldn't bolt on. Huh huh.
Liam
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NS Dev
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| posted on 2/1/05 at 12:30 AM |
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I know very little personally about all this, but have seen: A Dax Rush with the 2.7 Honda/Rover engine in it, so somebody has fitten one to a rwd
'box there, and also a Rover 216 (old shape one) converted to RWD, used in the BTRDA championship rallies, I last saw it in 1998 I think, and it
went quite well. it had two fabricated alloy plenhams over throttle bodies, and ran an aftermarket management system of some sort. You could try
speaking to WGT Auto Developments, as I think they had a bit to do with the car and could help out. It certainly had a Ford RWD box, a type 9 I
think.
Postscript - - Just been on to WGT's website, looks like they did the conversion, they mention it under "engine conversions"
(funnily enough!) have a look at : http://www.wgtautodevelopments.co.uk
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kaymar
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| posted on 11/1/05 at 11:23 PM |
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try car and car conversions magazine troll through back issues on the net. they have featyred 827 powered midget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mr_B
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 04:20 PM |
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How do i do that then? trawl the back issues i mean.
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kaymar
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 12:09 AM |
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i have been checking those man areas around the house!! you know garage/potting shed/ loft/greenhouse etc to find the copy i had but to no avail.
if i recall the feature was on the cover of car and car conversions, contact them see if they will assist you further regards martin
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