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Author: Subject: i got kicked off a track day yesterday :(
bi22le

posted on 29/2/16 at 11:51 AM Reply With Quote
i got kicked off a track day yesterday :(

Double black flagged for noise.

Brands hatch indy, 103db static, 92db drive by

My car has always static tested at 99db and yesterday was no different. I have never had any noise issues or concerns.

I was clocked at 94db drive by, and then static tested at 101db!! After buying and fitting a bolt on the end silencer i went out again and was short shifting. Clocked again at 94db. 2 strikes your off, sticker unceremoniously ripped of the front of my car.

I didnt bother arguing, they were polite, and felt i should respect them.

Im not pi$$ed off. Just gutted. I was with others who said my car is nowhere near the loudest out there and TBH it shocked me as well. There were a few people with additional silencers so a few got caught out.

Apparently msv have dropped the drive by limit for 2016 while keeping the static the same. This allows cars on track with little hope of staying below the drive by limit. When i was tested first thing in the morning the tester said 99db "we will see how that sounds out on track". I thought nothing of it considering i have been on so many tracks days without issue and am 4db below the max.

Be very careful people, check the drive by limits!





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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loggyboy

posted on 29/2/16 at 12:41 PM Reply With Quote
I had a similar situ to this in Jan there - car rated 95 db on static, but i tripped the driveby an hour or so in to day and was Blacked.
Was told to go way and fix - so I 'told' them i found a loose clamp, retested and it came back as 93db, so was let back out. (despite the 'loose clamp' not actually being touched at all) - I didnt get questioned again all day.
I heard a couple of other people got pulled up that day and were surprised they were.
At time I put it down to low temps causing sound to behave in different ways (lots on google on that).
I wondered if they have repositioned or changed their driveby meter - that must be the case.

[Edited on 29-2-16 by loggyboy]





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CosKev3

posted on 29/2/16 at 03:43 PM Reply With Quote
Some of the numpties love causing you grief though,and haven't got a clue about cars or noise.

I got black flagged at Donnington in my 306 Rallye, was nowhere near the noise limit.
As I was passing the noise meter a 350 bhp turbocharged 106 was overtaking me at full boost,not rocket science to work out who's car was making the noise!
But I still had the warning,and even after explaining it was the 106 overtaking me the numpties last advice was 'yeah well just keep the revs down a bit and you should be ok'

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Ben_Copeland

posted on 29/2/16 at 03:58 PM Reply With Quote
The noise meter is on the outside of the track, which means cars with passenger side exhausts are more likely to fail as well





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CosKev3

posted on 29/2/16 at 04:04 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
The noise meter is on the outside of the track, which means cars with passenger side exhausts are more likely to fail as well


Good point,so that's a high number of seven type cars

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bi22le

posted on 29/2/16 at 04:27 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
The noise meter is on the outside of the track, which means cars with passenger side exhausts are more likely to fail as well


When I asked where it was he said that there were 4 of them covering the whole circuit so dont. . . . . Thats where I interrupted him and asked if it was just a single trip from one mic then maybe I can just short shift or not not change down so early. He was not overly helpful or aggressive, I just know arguing gets you nowhere with these types.

Its like telling a bouncer to let you back into a nightclub after your old mate from school that had nothing to do with you started a got you both thrown out!!

I did think afterwards that my very passive approach may of implied that I knew my car was over the limit and was trying my luck, but got found out so did not fight my corner. Far from it, I just assume that they have no hidden agenda or want to ruin any ones day. I dont want brands to get shut down because of an idiot local resident gathering evidence.

Oh and my exhaust exits on the left . . . . .
My through bonnet upwards pointing induction is on the right. Loose, loose!

[Edited on 29/2/16 by bi22le]





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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Ben_Copeland

posted on 29/2/16 at 05:32 PM Reply With Quote
I had two friends going round brands.

One with left hand exhaust. One with right hand exhaust. Static test put the right hand exhaust car louder.

Strangely enough left hand car was kicked off. Right hand exhausts wasn't.





Ben

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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 29/2/16 at 06:47 PM Reply With Quote
Unfortunately, it's not the circuit that is the issue, it's the NIMBY's and their actions upon the council. The circuit is simply scared stiff. Your NIMBY's hand is on the phone, with the council 'workers' (Environmental Health) just wanting a box to tick, an enforcement notice to serve and a bonus payment on top of their annual increment.

Your car is actually very quiet, but still not enough. Combe and Goodwood are still pretty much off limits to anything audible, but I've had issues at Brands Hatch (black flagged), Snetterton and Croft.

The really annoying thing is, I've a few hatchbacks coming past the house at unwelcome hours, with open pipes and multiple gunfire sounds (yes, they're that noisy). That's OK it seems....

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mark chandler

posted on 29/2/16 at 06:48 PM Reply With Quote
Turbo would sort you out..

It's a bummer, I have made a massive can during my rebuild as being thrown off sucks... Been there once not again if I can help it.

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livelee

posted on 29/2/16 at 06:59 PM Reply With Quote
I was kicked off on the 22nd too

At Brands in Sept running an exhaust bung and all ok:



Fast forward to last week

Static test was 108! Put bung in and 105 and said I would be allowed on. Did 1st session 20 mins, very wet and following my brother for a bit who was driving a car for the 1st time on track:



The go out again and get black flagged:



Told to fix it. Took exhaust off and repacked with wadding. Tested again at 99db. Great. Only to be black flagged again:



Came in and tested again, back up to 105!

Sticker removed, home early.

I'm driving so gently, slowly just trying to get round. God knows how loud I would have been if i'd had opened the taps up!

I'm now researching air boxes, under bonnet sound deadening and planning on building a larger silencer. Joy

This evenings initial planning:







Feel free to share advice and experiences.

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twybrow

posted on 29/2/16 at 09:28 PM Reply With Quote
It is this sort if issue that means I don't tend to do trackdays, despite having a car that many would say is track focused. It is just too much money to take a punt. I have taken my car to Coombe and they tested it as a bike - it passed that test no problem. I have also done airfield days with no noise limits. But at my nearest tracks (Silverstone and Donnington) I don't think I would be able to get on track. Since i was last tested (101db) I have switched to a monstrous 7" can from cbs, and it sounds a lot quieter, but I have not tracked it to find out. Are there any safe tracks still left?!
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INDY BIRD

posted on 29/2/16 at 10:04 PM Reply With Quote
ah no one likes being kicked off track for noise had the same at bedford a few years back, have not back since, and you are a car engine, by your previous post wouldnt go bike engine then gets even harder,

livelee going well in the wet their you had some noisy transmission in top gear is that not helping, and at paddock hill bend sounds like something bottoming out perhaps tyre on arch or something? all possible noises that dont help if its near a meter, your car didn't sound over noisy if you can tell anything from video cameras but alot of transmission noise especially 5th gear, is it a close cut box?

[Edited on 29/2/16 by INDY BIRD]

[Edited on 29/2/16 by INDY BIRD]

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loggyboy

posted on 29/2/16 at 11:06 PM Reply With Quote
NIMBYS arent the issue, one bloke testing in his garden will do nothing. The tracks agree limits and the council check the logs, its the driveby logs they check so they have to operate a strict amount of chances.

quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
But at my nearest tracks (Silverstone and Donnington) I don't think I would be able to get on track.


My last day at Silverstone they didn't even bother with static tests. They have quite generous (or non existant) limits.



[Edited on 29-2-16 by loggyboy]





Mistral Motorsport

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livelee

posted on 1/3/16 at 07:25 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by INDY BIRD
livelee going well in the wet their you had some noisy transmission in top gear is that not helping, and at paddock hill bend sounds like something bottoming out perhaps tyre on arch or something? all possible noises that dont help if its near a meter, your car didn't sound over noisy if you can tell anything from video cameras but alot of transmission noise especially 5th gear, is it a close cut box?



Thank you. It's the Tracsport Type 9 gearbox here: http://www.spcomponents.co.uk/gpage3.html What's the airbox in your avatar? It looks substantial, does it have a filter inside?

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INDY BIRD

posted on 1/3/16 at 08:09 AM Reply With Quote
airbox here:

http://www.kitcardirect.co.uk/universal-ram-air-intake-and-fitting-plate.html

no filter but you could use individual socks or a cone filter inside if required, not sure if a px600 filter fits,

cheers

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Sam_68

posted on 1/3/16 at 08:18 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
... last advice was 'yeah well just keep the revs down a bit and you should be ok'


quote:
Originally posted by livelee
I'm driving so gently, slowly just trying to get round. God knows how loud I would have been if i'd had opened the taps up!


Kind of defeats the object of paying a lot of money to drive around a circuit, though, doesn't it?

I know it's very difficult to draw comparisons between different specs of car, but it would be interesting to know the details of what engines, exhausts and induction the 'failures' are running, against those form peole who have never experienced any issues?

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Jeano

posted on 1/3/16 at 08:36 AM Reply With Quote
Tested mine at 117dB seems like i got real issues! Especially if a bung is only reducing 3dB :\

Why do people have to repack the wadding what happens?

Do people take spare wadding to tracks as part of their "kit"





Location: Essex
Drives: Nothing

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Sam_68

posted on 1/3/16 at 08:42 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeano
Why do people have to repack the wadding what happens?



Essentially, it breaks down in use and individual fibres get blown out of the exhaust over time, reducing effectiveness.

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matt5964

posted on 1/3/16 at 09:04 AM Reply With Quote
I've been on many days, Donna, Bedford,rockingham Cadwell to name a few and never had an issues, static it reads anywhere from 92-96db and never tripped a drive by.

I have black top jenvey said pipercross percent filter, Simpson exhaust all running 220bhp and read lining at 8000

I don't get how people a really struggling with a car engine. Maybe I've just been lucky.





Luego velocity XT 2.0ltr 221.3bhp 178.9lbft

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livelee

posted on 1/3/16 at 10:55 AM Reply With Quote
That's encouraging. Do you have an air box or a cut in your bonnet for cold air? Pictures of your setup please

I'm Silvertop Zetec, Dunnell Engines option 6 - http://www.dunnellengines.com/zetec_inj_optionkits_6.php Red is 7.6 but not been near that in a while
This exhaust can - http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/6-stainless-steel-silencer Custom 4 > 1 Manifold
No airbox and a hole in my bonnet. Single, large ITG filter.

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CNHSS1

posted on 1/3/16 at 02:14 PM Reply With Quote
noise is becoming contentious within hillclimbing now as a few venues have noise issues. As many have said, its not as simple as loud and quiet cars, but what trips the meters. Exhaust outlet angle can make a marked effect, 7 types often exit 90deg to direction of motion, so the gasses make more racket, than if a 45deg angled tube is added (see pic below). There are all sorts of resonances going on too, stainless silencers are often noisier than ally or mild steel too.

induction roar can also be huge on a car where the filters in the air stream or on socks or open bellmouths. some experimentation there will also help. Straight cut gearboxes, or even helically cut but dog boxes, can fire the sensors. At Prescott hillclimb, my car when dual driven by my co pilot will register differing peaks as we shift in differing places! Also stay off the limiter, a tiny blip on the limiter will send over a car 3-4Db under the limit otherwise.

certainly angle the exhaust exit, either with a clamp on if you don't like the look, and experiment with the exit slightly towards the tarmac too. Don't aim at the floor or the bounce back will trigger the sensors too!




[Edited on 1/3/16 by CNHSS1]





"Racing is life, everything else, before or after, is just waiting"---Steve McQueen

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bi22le

posted on 1/3/16 at 06:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by matt5964
I've been on many days, Donna, Bedford,rockingham Cadwell to name a few and never had an issues, static it reads anywhere from 92-96db and never tripped a drive by.

I have black top jenvey said pipercross percent filter, Simpson exhaust all running 220bhp and read lining at 8000

I don't get how people a really struggling with a car engine. Maybe I've just been lucky.


You sound like me, last week!!





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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matt5964

posted on 1/3/16 at 06:35 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
quote:
Originally posted by matt5964
I've been on many days, Donna, Bedford,rockingham Cadwell to name a few and never had an issues, static it reads anywhere from 92-96db and never tripped a drive by.

I have black top jenvey said pipercross percent filter, Simpson exhaust all running 220bhp and read lining at 8000

I don't get how people a really struggling with a car engine. Maybe I've just been lucky.


You sound like me, last week!!


Don't jinx me I'm planning quite a few track days this year...





Luego velocity XT 2.0ltr 221.3bhp 178.9lbft

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Worzey

posted on 1/3/16 at 08:08 PM Reply With Quote
I'm worried the new R400k will cause problems at most tracks By all accounts they are very noisy on exhaust and induction. I hear Goodwood is a no-go for them Brands has always been a favourite. Maybe I should cast my net wider and look to do more circuits this year.

I might have to keep the Velocity as a "track day special" given the super-charger with plenum etc... has made it much quieter than before. Just need to convince SWMBO that we need 2 toy's in the garage





Caterham R400

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Slimy38

posted on 1/3/16 at 08:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CNHSS1
noise is becoming contentious within hillclimbing now as a few venues have noise issues. As many have said, its not as simple as loud and quiet cars, but what trips the meters. Exhaust outlet angle can make a marked effect, 7 types often exit 90deg to direction of motion, so the gasses make more racket, than if a 45deg angled tube is added (see pic below).


Most tin tops have the exhaust pointing straight down, or at least 45 degrees into the road. So why is it 'standard' to have the 7 exhaust pointing straight out?

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