dewbries
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| posted on 7/5/16 at 04:39 PM |
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Last ditch attempt!!
Hi all,
Long story short. I have now completed an engine swap, as mention in another thread, lengthened my foot well and generally done a lot of house keeping
on the 8yrs old gal. She now sits in a garage with an MX5 NA 1.8 lump ready to go... but wont.
Had loom and ecu, immobiliser key and all the works but found the ecu to be unserviceable. Trying to keep the cost down and after talking some guys at
Stoneleigh I bought a three plug BPS5 ECU hoping I would be able to get the engine up and running.
I have two problems as far as I can tell:
1. The fuel pump relay is not switching on have connected it as my wiring diagram suggests but still nothing.
2. I have no spark.
Main relay trips in, No fuses blown. Power at ECU and coils, fuel purge solenoid operates.
Before I decide to spend money on an after market ECU anyone got any ideas, wiring diagrams?
Thanks in advance.
Second build. Now refining and changing drive train
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coozer
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| posted on 7/5/16 at 05:03 PM |
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Sounds like the immobiser is stopping you. Got mall that stuff wired up right??
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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dewbries
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| posted on 7/5/16 at 05:13 PM |
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Goodness only knows, I cant find any info on the wiring for the Temic box and the alarm. Was hopng with the differnet ECU i bought, I could bypass all
that. The guy I spoke to at Stoneleigh to was running his 1.8 ltr BPS5 ECU with no alram or imobbiliser. Been struggling with this for weeks now, just
want to get out on the road.
Second build. Now refining and changing drive train
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garyt
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| posted on 7/5/16 at 06:30 PM |
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Hi I think you need a 1995/98 wiring diagram as that ecu is from a mk1 1.8 I had a similar problem when I did my wiring as I had cut a o2 sensor wire
took ages to find, but when I did it all fired up with 1 plug out (was checking for spark)
I have wiring diagrams for 2001 and 2003 and workshop 1999 if any of these are any use give me a shout, what wiring diagram are you using?
remember we are not mad just creatively insane !!!!!
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dewbries
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| posted on 7/5/16 at 06:45 PM |
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Garyt
Thanks for that, will check over the wires again. I do know there is a stray wire which is labled lambda..
Second build. Now refining and changing drive train
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ianhurley20
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| posted on 8/5/16 at 07:56 AM |
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Came across this on an american site
1)Step 1: Starter and related systems- This is a pretty easy step- when you turn the key to “START,” what happens? If it cranks, don’t bother reading
this, just go to Step 2. If you’re not getting any cranking, keep reading. The solution is most likely very simple.
a)Battery- especially if the car has been sitting lately, of if it is very cold, the battery may be dead. Have it load-tested at an auto parts store-
it may be showing 12V but not have much current in it.
b)Ignition switch- try cleaning the ignition switch. Several issues have been traced to the connections becoming dirty over the years.
c)Solenoid and starter- If battery checks out, it’s time to check the solenoid and starter.
i)Check for power reaching starter, listen for solenoid clicking.
2)Step 2: Cranks but will not fire- this scenario is a bit more complex, but manageable.
a)When the key is turned to “RUN,” does the Check Engine light come on?
i)If YES: Pull stored fault codes from ECU and refer to the article to decipher them. I would recommend doing this twice- pull the codes, clear the
codes by temporarily disconnecting the battery, try to start it, and then pull the codes again. This will be particularly useful if there are a lot of
old codes sitting in the computer’s memory.
(1)Is the timing belt broken? Remove the oil cap and look at the cam while a helper cranks the motor. If the cam is turning, your timing belt is not
broken. It would be highly unlikely for the belt to slip enough to cause the car not to run and still turn the cams. Make sure, though, that the cam
is turning and not simply flopping around.
ii)If NO: The ECU is not firing the Check Engine Light. This means that power is not reaching the ECU, power is not reaching the Check Engine Light or
the computer is bad.
(1)Remove the access panel under the driver’s dash and locate the fuse box. Check the 10A “ROOM” fuse in the bottom left of the box. This supplies a
constant 12V to terminal 1A of the ECU. If the fuse is good, check for bad wiring by checking for power at ECU 1A.
(2)Check the Main EFI 30A fuse in the underhood fuse/relay box.
(3)Check the Main EFI Relay. Putting the key in “RUN” and unplugging/plugging the relay to see if it clicks is a very basic test here, but a failed
relay can still click a little bit (mine did) and lead you astray. I would recommend you check for continuity by applying +12v to terminal A,
grounding terminal B and checking for continuity between terminals C and D. This procedure is detailed in the Enthusiast’s Manual, page 5:42.
(a)Depending on the age of your Miata, the old relay may read “B6S8” or “JE16.” The new part number is JE16-18-811
(b)If failed, replace. Note that this is a dealer part. Some auto parts stores can try to cross it to another relay, but I wouldn’t risk it unless you
know for sure that the guy on the other side of the counter is GOOD, and they can verify that the terminals and mounting will be identical. .
(4)If these are good, check for +12V at terminal (X) of the ECU with the ignition in “RUN.”
(a)If no voltage, there is a bad connection somewhere in the circuit. Refer to the wiring diagram on pages Z18-21 in FWM.
(b)If there is voltage, there may be a problem with the ECU, it would be best to swap it for a known good unit for testing. If the car fires with the
known good ECU, you've located the problem.
3)Step 3: Ignition System Checks
a)First, check for spark at each cylinder. If no spark observed, continue here. If good, strong spark observed at each cylinder, continue to Step 4.
Also, while plugs are removed, visually inspect them for damage, excessive buildup, oil in the plug wells, or other obvious issues. Check to see if
they are wet- if not, fuel is not reaching the cylinders.
b)Inspect the spark plugs. They should not be fouled or otherwise unserviceable. Check the spark plugs’ gaps- they should be 0.039-0.043in
(1.00-1.10mm).
i)While you have the plugs out of the engine, it's a good time to see if they're wet- this is a good initial check for fuel reaching the
cylinders. However, the presence of fuel does not automatically mean there are no faults with the fuel system, and while dry plugs are an indication
of fuel issues, they do not rule out ignition issues.
c)Inspect the ignition coils.
i)With the key in “RUN,” there should be voltage at the positive terminal of the ignition coil connector.
(1)If no voltage here, check the wiring. We have already ruled out the fuses and ECU.
ii)Check the resistances of the coils. The specifications are:
(1)Primary Coil: .78-.94 Ω
(2)Secondary Coil: 11.2-15.2 kΩ
(3)Primary Terminal to Case (insulation check): greater than 10M Ω
(4)Spark plug wires should be in good condition and securely fastened to the coil packs and spark plugs. While it is highly unlikely that plug wires
would cause a sudden failure unless chewed up while the car was in storage, the specified maximum resistance on them is <16 kΩ per meter-
the actual maximum allowable resistance for each lead must be determined by measuring each wire.
4)Step 4: Fuel System Checks- If there is a good, strong spark at each cylinder, or if spark plugs are dry after cranking and not firing, check the
fuel system.
a)The Circuit Opening Relay is a likely cause of failure here- it is located under the dash. Pull the access panel to locate it (photo, diagram). It
will be up under the dash, toward the side of the car (above clutch pedal).
i)To test this relay in the car, jump terminals FP and GND- this will bypass the AFM contact points and the ground group under the brake booster- and
turn the ignition key to RUN. The fuel pump will be difficult to hear, so perform this test in a quiet location, and you may want to listen in the
fuel filler if you can’t hear the pump elsewhere.
b)If you do not hear the pump, remove the access panel under the rear deck carpet. Check for +12V at the L/R terminal with the FP/GND jumper in place
and the key in “RUN.”
i)If no power detected, there is an opening in the circuit to be found.
ii)If power is detected, the pump itself is most likely at fault.
c)If the pump is good but fuel is not reaching the cylinders, check the connections to the injectors.
i) Using a stethoscope, or a long screwdriver, listen for injector operation with the engine being cranked- you should hear each injector click on and
off.
ii)If you suspect a failure, check for battery voltage on the red/white terminal with the ignition in “RUN.” Each injector should show resistance of
12-16Ω.
d)If the injectors are cycling properly, and the fuel pump is operating properly, there may be a fault with the fuel pressure regulator.
i)De-pressurize the fuel system by removing the circuit opening relay and cranking the motor for a few seconds.
ii)Install a pressure gauge in the fuel line, where it goes to the fuel rail. The reading when cranking should be 31-38psi. When turned off and
pressurized, the system should hold a pressure of at least 21psi.
iii)If pressure is low, pinch or clamp off the fuel return line- if pressure increases, suspect a problem with the fuel pressure regulator. If
pressure does not increase, there is most likely a problem with the fuel delivery lines, which would most often be present in the fuel filter.
iv)If pressure is extremely high, suspect a blockage of the return line.
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dewbries
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| posted on 8/5/16 at 08:32 AM |
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Thanks ianhurley20.
I have been through that list thanks. I have no dash instrumentation so no check light and am struggling to know how to wire one in. Followed the
wiring diagram for a 3 - 4 plug ECU (it has space for four plugs but only 1,3 & 4 are used) but to no avail.
Going this morning to trace a stray wire, it was marked up by the guy I bought the loom and engine off as lambda sensor. There is only one on the
model I have and the wire is running from it.
I have wired a fair few cars in my time and this is just that little bit too much beyond me. So frustrating. Once those wires enter that silver box
its like some form of black magic. LOL
If anybody has diagrams or info on the wiring of the temic or High Performance Alarm i would be grateful to hear from you.
[Edited on 8/5/16 by dewbries]
Checked Black/blue wire. Didn't go to Lambda but TPS i think, haven't had time to check properly. Will check continuity next week when
i'm back from working in Wales. Still connected the wire to the junction of wires near the ECU, made no difference. Still NO SPARK.
[Edited on 8/5/16 by dewbries]
Second build. Now refining and changing drive train
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P500ADD
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| posted on 9/7/16 at 06:40 AM |
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Hi did you have any luck with the Temic. Looks like I'm in the same boat.
[Edited on 9/7/16 by P500ADD]
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dewbries
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| posted on 9/7/16 at 10:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by P500ADD
Hi did you have any luck with the Temic. Looks like I'm in the same boat.
[Edited on 9/7/16 by P500ADD]
Not in the slightest i am sorry to say. I have spent hours upon hours searching on the net. Spoken to guys at the Kit Car show and bought differnent
OEM ecu for £28 but no joy at all. I finally went down the Megasquirt rout and got a MS2extra PNP from extraefi. Thats not the end of the stroy though
still struggling to get the engine running.
Hope you have more joy than me.
Are you on a tight buget?
Mark
Second build. Now refining and changing drive train
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P500ADD
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| posted on 9/7/16 at 03:55 PM |
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Hi mate. I have a spare 1.8 which I want to build as a turbo unit with a mapable ecu. For now I just want to get the car through iva without spending
unesessary cash. I chopped the original loom to save some money and I've rigged up the old mx5 dials as a test unit for the wiring. Can't
get the immobiliser led wiring though. Without that I'm buggered. I'm so close but something is just not right wiring wise. The I should
of been more thorough with the labeling.
Do you know what wires went where?
[Edited on 9/7/16 by P500ADD]
[Edited on 9/7/16 by P500ADD]
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hizzi
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| posted on 9/7/16 at 04:09 PM |
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i am using a 1.8 out a 99 car the ecu/ignition barrel/imobiliser are all matched and should be changed together. if the imobiliser is at fault the
engine cranks but no fuel pump or spark. also if you have done away with the mx5 dash then you will have issues with charging etc the alternator is
ecu controlled and needs the dash warning light to work, it also takes readings from various sensors, i removed the sensor from the air filter box and
it wouldnt charge
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owelly
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| posted on 9/7/16 at 09:45 PM |
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I'm not familiar with the bits you're playing with but from my experience, if the fuel pump runs to prime when the ignition is switched
on, but then stops and doesn't kick in when cranked, the ECU isn't seeing the RPM so it doesn't know the engine is spinning. This
also causes the lack of spark. Is the a crank sensor? If so, check that it's pulsing and that pulse is getting to the ECU.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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dewbries
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| posted on 10/7/16 at 09:28 AM |
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Heres a number of replies.
P500Add:
I did the same as you, stripped loom down and continued to get spark till i blow the ECU up. Sorry but in my opinion and researcg there is not info
on the imobiliser and as me your on a hiding to nowhere. Sorry to be so blunt but i spent three months trying various different ideads and got no
where. Got MS2 in the end still trying to get that working.
Hizzi:
Mines 97 and the alternator is not regulated by the ECU on my model, as mentioned ditch all OEm ecu stuff and gone MS@.
owelly. Im pretty eccentric and also failing to save, particularly as this is having relative buckets loads thrown at it. Thanks for the info. The MS2
fires up the pump at ignition then switches off, turns on again when cranking though. My engine has a CAS and i'm at the stage of testing this
for signal at the mo.
Mark
Second build. Now refining and changing drive train
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