David Jenkins
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 posted on 28/12/04 at 03:03 PM |
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X-flow starters
Now that my engine's coming out of the car I've decided to replace the cr*ppy intertia starter with a pre-engaged one. The
flywheel's coming off anyway, so it'll be easy to get a new ring gear fitted.
I'm not bothered about whether it'll fit or not, as the engine originally had a pre-engaged starter - it used to belong to an automatic
car.
My only questions are:
(1) Which way will the solenoid hang? If it's up or down then I should have no problems, but if it's sideways (away from the block) then I
may have space issues.
(2) Has anyone else done this conversion? If so, did you have any problems or issues?
cheers,
David
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 04:08 PM |
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Haven't actually used one although I have one here. I always had a stock of 'straight' starters.
I've compared the two units and the bolt pattern appears the same so should fit OK.
The solenoid is piggy backed on top of starter.
You will have to have a new longer battery lead made up or else join the two leads from the original seperate solenoid with a nut/bolt and insulation
(Not really recommended)
Spade teminal wire then just needs lengthening to reach piggy back solenoid.
Hope not teaching Granny etc.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 04:52 PM |
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Thanks Rob.
I was pretty certain that there was a pre-engaged starter available for the X-flow, as they were used on autos and 'cold climate' models.
I'm still a bit concerned, as I did a Google and found the following diagram:
To me that looks like the solenoid will have to come out horizontally.
I'm not worried about the wiring - that's trivial as far as I'm concerned! 
Now for the next question - anyone know which cars used pre-engaged starters for use on a x-flow? I think the Lucas ref. is M35J, which may or may
not help! I want to get an old one from the scrappy to "try for size" before I get the ring gear changed.
cheers,
David
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gazza285
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 05:39 PM |
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Just use a Sierra one. A bit like most Ford gearboxes fit most Ford engines, most starters fit most bellhousings. Sounds like you already know about
the ring gear, or you can get away with the inertia gear, but it does rather make a funny noise.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 06:47 PM |
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M35J was a model series of starters rather than an actual part number .
I can confirm that any Pinto 1600 or 1800 starter should fit as should CVH Sierra
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 07:02 PM |
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Pinto Starter
So a 1600 Pinto starter will fit a Xflow.
That's very neat, as I just happen to have one available. What precisely has to be done with the ring gear? And why?
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 07:15 PM |
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The ring gear for an inertia starter has chamfers on the side where the bendix gear comes in - helps to give a "lead in" to it. The ring
for a pre-engaged starter has square-cut sides.
There is a reason for having to change - something to do with the number of teeth, or the cross-section profile of the teeth, or similar.
What really peeves me is that originally I was going to fit a pinto and had an old example in my garage. After a while I decided to fit the x-flow
and got rid of the old Pinto. About 6 months ago I got rid of a few left-overs in my garage - including a Sierra pre-engaged starter! 
At the moment I want to get hold of an old example to see whether the teeth will mesh properly, before I remove the flywheel and get it modified.
David
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 08:12 PM |
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David,
I'll go back and check that solenoid is on top.
Not tonight as starters are in barn along with the mice and rats.
Had a mouse drop down onto my head from rafter last time I went in the dark, shat myself as I thought it was a rat 
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paulf
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| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:03 PM |
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I had problems with starters on my crossflow, the first time i fitted a sierra one and found that the pinion was unable to release from the ring gear.
For some reason the meshing was about 5mm to much.I then thought it must need an inertia starter and fitted one but that made very nasty noises,
although did turn the engine. I then refitted the sierra pre engaged unit as i decided the ring gear wasnt compatible with the inertia starter.
I turned up some 8mm spacers to fit over the bolts as a temporary measure intending to make a proper alloy spacer .This worked fine and i have never
got around to making the proper spacer.
The solenoid is on top.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by Dick Axtell
So a 1600 Pinto starter will fit a Xflow.
That's very neat, as I just happen to have one available. What precisely has to be done with the ring gear? And why?
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 29/12/04 at 10:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by paulf
I turned up some 8mm spacers to fit over the bolts as a temporary measure...
Thanks Paul.
Presumably you needed to shift the starter assy 8mm out of engagement with the ring gear?
Are the spacers sandwiched between the starter and the bell-housing?
TIA
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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paulf
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| posted on 29/12/04 at 12:34 PM |
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Yes Dick that is exactly what I had to do,as i said it was just a temporary fix to get the engine started, but have not found the need to do anything
further.
Thinking about it it may depend on what flywheel is fitted also,but may be of help to anyone finding the same problem..
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by Dick Axtell
quote:
Originally posted by paulf
I turned up some 8mm spacers to fit over the bolts as a temporary measure...
Thanks Paul.
Presumably you needed to shift the starter assy 8mm out of engagement with the ring gear?
Are the spacers sandwiched between the starter and the bell-housing?
TIA
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 29/12/04 at 01:19 PM |
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In my Googling I found the following useful link:
Kent engine starters in Morgans
The rest of the site is really useful too, especially the general, non-Morgan stuff:
General stuff
NB: some of the links are broken... and it's US of A oriented.
Cheers,
David
[Edited on 29/12/04 by David Jenkins]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 31/12/04 at 01:14 PM |
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Well, the engine's out and I've done some investigation - a 1.8 CVH Sierra's starter motor bolts just nicely to the block/gearbox. To
answer my own question, the solenoid sits just up from horizontal - fortunately it clears the chassis by about 5mm or 6mm.
As for the ring gear, the current 'inertia' one is in completely the wrong place for the pre-engaged starter. The diagram below shows why
(lifted from my Wallage X-flow book). Not a problem, as I had already planned to fit a proper one anyway.
Also, if the diagram is accurate, it looks like the pre-engaged ring has more teeth than the inertia one.
rgds,
David
[Edited on 31/12/04 by David Jenkins]
 
Rescued attachment ring_gears.gif
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paulf
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| posted on 31/12/04 at 01:42 PM |
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David
Have you got a new flywheel to fit also? I would think that whichever ring gear is fitted it would sit in the same position on the flywheel .This may
be why I had to use the spacer between starter and bellhousing.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
As for the ring gear, the current 'inertia' one is in completely the wrong place for the pre-engaged starter. The diagram below shows why
(lifted from my Wallage X-flow book). Not a problem, as I had already planned to fit a proper one anyway.
Also, if the diagram is accurate, it looks like the pre-engaged ring has more teeth than the inertia one.
rgds,
David
[Edited on 31/12/04 by David Jenkins]
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MikeR
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| posted on 20/4/05 at 08:38 PM |
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Interesting, my crossflow pre-engaged starter from the automatic has the solonoid on the top of the starter, not hte side.
Can you confirm which car your pre-engaged starter came from.
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