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Author: Subject: Bonding spigot rings to alloys
Blacktop

posted on 2/3/17 at 08:46 AM Reply With Quote
Bonding spigot rings to alloys

I bought some new alloys for my daily driver and I am needing to bond the supplied plastic spigot ring into the bore of my alloy wheels to prevent them moving and becoming misaligned when fitting the wheels to the hub (as is what is currently happening). Any suggestions on what would be best to bond the two together?
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BigFaceDave

posted on 2/3/17 at 09:43 AM Reply With Quote
Are you putting the rings in the wheels then fitting the wheels? If so try putting the rings on the hub then sliding the wheels over the top. I always find it easier that way and once you've got a few miles under your belt the road dirt will help hold them in place a bit better.
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Nickp

posted on 2/3/17 at 09:53 AM Reply With Quote
Couple of spots or a smear of silicon should do it, and not too permanent if you want to remove them in future.
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loggyboy

posted on 2/3/17 at 11:47 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blacktop
I bought some new alloys for my daily driver and I am needing to bond the supplied plastic spigot ring into the bore of my alloy wheels to prevent them moving and becoming misaligned when fitting the wheels to the hub (as is what is currently happening). Any suggestions on what would be best to bond the two together?


Could you clarify misaligned? They are circles in a circular hole - what can be misaligned?





Mistral Motorsport

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mcerd1

posted on 2/3/17 at 11:53 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blacktop
....to prevent them moving and becoming misaligned when fitting the wheels to the hub (as is what is currently happening).

As above I think we need to see what the problem is....

what style of spigot rings have you got - and what does the centre of the wheel they are going into look like ?


it may be that you just need a better type of spigot ring

[Edited on 2/3/2017 by mcerd1]





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Blacktop

posted on 2/3/17 at 12:07 PM Reply With Quote
If you pop the spigot into the wheel bore it is as you say a circle in a circular hole, however when lifting the wheel onto the hub the spigot is moving forward unevenly as it is not secured in the bore of the wheel so it is actually at a slight angle as the wheel mounts the hub. The car has tapered hubs (which I think is not helping) so rather than the spigot centring itself onto the hub as the wheel is pushed further on the spigot is just being pushed back still at an angle so half the spigot has moved down the hub onto the tapered section while the other half is more or less where it should be on the hub.
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Blacktop

posted on 2/3/17 at 12:16 PM Reply With Quote
Picture of hub (not mine) pinched off another forum for reference. The spigot should be sitting on the outermost part of the hub.



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loggyboy

posted on 2/3/17 at 12:58 PM Reply With Quote
Can you get a pic of the wheel with the spigot in place?





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Blacktop

posted on 2/3/17 at 01:19 PM Reply With Quote
luckily I had one on my phone

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adithorp

posted on 2/3/17 at 01:29 PM Reply With Quote
Fit the ring onto the hub (secure with a bit of silicone sealant if you want it more secure) then put wheel on after.





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loggyboy

posted on 2/3/17 at 01:54 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Fit the ring onto the hub (secure with a bit of silicone sealant if you want it more secure) then put wheel on after.

That may not work as not only is there the angle to the hub flange which would (possibly?) allow the spiggot to 'float', but the wheel looks to have a chamfer to the where the spigot sits, so the spigot may not then locate enough in to the rim.





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mcerd1

posted on 2/3/17 at 03:40 PM Reply With Quote
I guess the taper on the hub spigot is the issue
Maybe some longer spigot rings would sort that

What does the centre of the OE wheel look like ?



[Edited on 2/3/2017 by mcerd1]





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Blacktop

posted on 2/3/17 at 05:09 PM Reply With Quote
Here is the OEM wheel, I have measured everything and if I can get the spigot to stay in the bore of the aftermarket wheel then it will locate on the hub in the correct position and match the OEM wheel.


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loggyboy

posted on 2/3/17 at 08:38 PM Reply With Quote
Such a massive chamfer! That are they from? Whats the oe hub look like.9





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Blacktop

posted on 2/3/17 at 08:51 PM Reply With Quote
Mk7 golf gti, that is the back of the oem alloys. The hub is as the first pic
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Slimy38

posted on 2/3/17 at 09:28 PM Reply With Quote
This might be a silly question, but can you use the wheels without the spigot rings? Once the bolts are torqued up there won't be any forces exerted through the ring. If the bolts are tapered they should align the wheel themselves.
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mcerd1

posted on 3/3/17 at 06:48 AM Reply With Quote
Did the spigot rings you've got come with the wheels?

Have you got a set of digital calipers ?
If you can take a few measurements we could work out the dimensions for a spigot ring that works better

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
This might be a silly question, but can you use the wheels without the spigot rings? Once the bolts are torqued up there won't be any forces exerted through the ring. If the bolts are tapered they should align the wheel themselves.


That's just asking for vibration on a modern car - most hubs from the 80's onwards need the spigot to get a good enough alinement...





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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 3/3/17 at 09:12 AM Reply With Quote
Interesting hub flange, I'm seeing(?) the OE wheels for that setup sit on the external flange diameter. You're attempting to centre the wheel on the diameter at the hub face, which is less. You need a different shape of spigot.

What would I do, I'd machine the taper OD off the hub if possible (I can't see if there's enough internal material from the pictures to take that approach).

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Blacktop

posted on 3/3/17 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
Yes Spigots came with the wheels (Wolfrace) and are the correct size, they fit in the bore well enough but just not tight enough that they have to be tapped in and stay in of there on accord.
When I fitted the wheels oringially I was getting a vibration hence removing them and investigating to discover the the spigots were not staying in the correct location when the wheel was offered to the hub.

I have ordered another set of spigots off fleabay just for comparison and I am planning to put some thin tape around the spigot to see if that is enough to make it a tight fit into the wheel bore so it stays in position.

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Blacktop

posted on 3/3/17 at 09:19 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Interesting hub flange, I'm seeing(?) the OE wheels for that setup sit on the external flange diameter. You're attempting to centre the wheel on the diameter at the hub face, which is less. You need a different shape of spigot.

What would I do, I'd machine the taper OD off the hub if possible (I can't see if there's enough internal material from the pictures to take that approach).


That is incorrect as I have measured it all and checked it against the OEM wheel etc..., I am attempting to centre the wheel on the diameter of the outermost part of the hub (largest part) the same part as where the OEM wheel locates and it will locate there if I can secure the spigot to the bore of the wheel.

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mcerd1

posted on 3/3/17 at 10:06 AM Reply With Quote
here's how I see the problem





If dimension A on the hub is greater than dimension C of the spigot ring then it will easily fall out of place (assuming its ever long enough to reach in the first place)

on my borbet wheels the plastic spigot rings that came with the wheels actually clip solidly into place - once they are in they are very difficult to remove again - but if your ones just push in then that could be the problem, but I don't think glue would be the best answer...

if its just that they aren't long enough at all then 'longer' spigot rings would be the only real answer

I've sketched up a couple of ideas:







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loggyboy

posted on 3/3/17 at 10:14 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
here's how I see the problem




Looks spot on analysis to me.





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Blacktop

posted on 3/3/17 at 11:33 AM Reply With Quote
Agree that is a spot on analysis and is the same conculsion that I came too aswell. I obvioulsy don't want to go down the custom spigot route if possible but if I was I would ensure the spigot would be flush with the edge of the wheel so it sits directly against the face of the hub so movement is not possible.

As annotated in your sketches the problem is the current plastic spigot is not a tight fit into the wheel bore. It is snug (very minimal movement) but not tight and does fall out if you tip the wheel. I reckon if it had an extra 0.5mm-1mm onto it's diameter then it would be a tight fit. This is why I think some form of glue to bond it would resolve the issue. As mentioned previoulsy I have ordered a another set of spigots from a different source so it will be intersting to see if the tolerances are the same or not.

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mcerd1

posted on 3/3/17 at 11:59 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blacktop
I obvioulsy don't want to go down the custom spigot route if possible but if I was I would ensure the spigot would be flush with the edge of the wheel so it sits directly against the face of the hub so movement is not possible


If it comes to it I'd be careful about making the new spigot exactly flush with the face of the wheel - if the tolerance is just a tiny bit off then the new spigot ring could be a high point that would prevent the mounting face of the wheel from clamping up tight to the hub - so it will be safer to leave a deliberate but small gap

combined with making the rings a better fit in the new wheels a small gap wont give you any issues

[Edited on 3/3/2017 by mcerd1]





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