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Author: Subject: Switching from break in oil to fully synthetic
bikecarbfred

posted on 23/3/21 at 08:41 AM Reply With Quote
Switching from break in oil to fully synthetic

Joe gibbs : 5W 30 break in oil
I have done 50 miles over 2 years breaking in full rebuild.
It was quite a hard-ish break in during those miles. Made sure to put it under load and over run it.
The rings seated in i'd say instantly during the camshaft break in. then after i took it for 5 mile runs; then a few ten miles run towards end.

1) the joe gibbs oil is 2 years old and 2) I want to bump up the oil pressure a tad or to. Get 1 bar(18psi) at idle and 2 bar(30psi) at 2K when fully hot and raced abit to thin oil out. and after that it goes up around 10 psi for every 1k up to around 4K. not really booted the engine due to it being new.


My question is:
I am ready to switch to 5w40 mobile fully synthetic this weekend. Is it too soon? Or is it a myth that this kinds of oil is too slippery for relativly new piston rings.

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pigeondave

posted on 23/3/21 at 10:25 AM Reply With Quote
I dunno TBH, but this is an interesting talk about the run in process for a green engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrqsWoMdlEk&t=161s

talks more about time and load, rather than miles
HTH

Posted this because I dont think maybe you have enough time on the engine.

[Edited on 23/3/21 by pigeondave]

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chillis

posted on 23/3/21 at 01:04 PM Reply With Quote
Why would you use break in oil? Is this a very oil type of engine?

As Pideondave says its about time at load rather than the oil. 15miles of gentle driving and if all is ok then find some steep hills and slog it up them trying to hold full throttle at about peak torque speed to load the ring pack and bed the rings in. Rings are so hard on modern engines if they don't get loaded up then they just polish the cylinders and you'll get lots of oil consumption.





Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!

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pigeondave

posted on 23/3/21 at 02:06 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chillis


As Pideondave says....


I don't want to be THAT person, but something funny has happened to your G key. Looks like its been swapped with the D.

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bikecarbfred

posted on 23/3/21 at 03:17 PM Reply With Quote
Engine type: 1.6 AFH overhead cams.

That is what I have done. 50 miles of heavy load on rings. up hills 3rd gear. and over runs.

Is it now okay to change to fully synthetic oil or is it a myth that it will polish the bores smooth.

I have read that piston rings can bed in after a few miles if run right. so 50 miles is surely enough now to swap oil?

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gremlin1234

posted on 23/3/21 at 03:51 PM Reply With Quote
what does the oil look like on the dipstick? (colour, texture, and fill-level )
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bikecarbfred

posted on 23/3/21 at 05:31 PM Reply With Quote
It looked brill new colour oil . only done 50 miles. But I did notice the very minute grey particle, extrmley small like a powder. towards the last ten miles or so.
So I know it is ready for a change and filter change but I have ordered fully synthetic 5w40.

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CosKev3

posted on 23/3/21 at 06:55 PM Reply With Quote
I wouldn't say 50 miles is long enough myself,an engine builder I know runs his engines for 3 hours on the engine dyno running in.
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CosKev3

posted on 23/3/21 at 06:58 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chillis
Why would you use break in oil?


It's not recommended to use semi synthetic or fully synthetic oils to run in engines,as they can be that good at lubricating the bores they stop the rings bedding in.
Same reason as you are not meant to use engine assembly lube in the bores or on rings.
Should use mineral oil or running in oil.

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jacko

posted on 23/3/21 at 07:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by chillis
Why would you use break in oil?


It's not recommended to use semi synthetic or fully synthetic oils to run in engines,as they can be that good at lubricating the bores they stop the rings bedding in.
Same reason as you are not meant to use engine assembly lube in the bores or on rings.
Should use mineral oil or running in oil.


All this is very good information
Jacko

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Gord

posted on 23/3/21 at 07:59 PM Reply With Quote
You have done a hard break in with lots of overrun, the rings are broke in now so waiting any longer to change your oil is a waste of time.
Change your oil for whatever oil you intend to use and drive it as hard as you like, the breaking in is only to seal the rings and that is done straightaway.

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SPYDER

posted on 23/3/21 at 08:12 PM Reply With Quote
Joe Gibbs is supposed to be good for 500 miles but I changed mine after about 100. It's likely that your rings are bedded after 50 miles, according to some, given the way you have driven the car. When I was looking into it there were many builders who were advocating a short, intense break in using Gibbs or similar then changing the oil/filter and going straight to the rolling road. That's pretty much what I did.
I was warned that Gibbs oil stinks when you take it out. They were right.

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bikecarbfred

posted on 23/3/21 at 08:55 PM Reply With Quote
Looks like my instinct was right. Pointless trying to bed rings in further. Job is done. Time to change oil and hope there is no oil leaks from fully synthetic:p

Thanks lads for help

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Gord

posted on 23/3/21 at 09:15 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bikecarbfred
Looks like my instinct was right. Pointless trying to bed rings in further. Job is done. Time to change oil and hope there is no oil leaks from fully synthetic:p

Thanks lads for help


I've built a couple of turbo engines, I usually break them in hard and within 30 miles I will be using all of the rev range up to the redline.
I will then do around 50-100 miles (depends on how much time I have), then drop the oil and change the filter and put it straight onto the rolling road, tune it and then thrashed on the track.
I know drag racers who break their rings in within 10 minutes of hard driving then go on to do some really quick times.

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chillis

posted on 24/3/21 at 07:23 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
quote:
Originally posted by chillis


As Pideondave says....


I don't want to be THAT person, but something funny has happened to your G key. Looks like its been swapped with the D.


This keeps happening, randomly, and on ny keydoarg at werk too





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chillis

posted on 24/3/21 at 07:31 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by chillis
Why would you use break in oil?


It's not recommended to use semi synthetic or fully synthetic oils to run in engines,as they can be that good at lubricating the bores they stop the rings bedding in.
Same reason as you are not meant to use engine assembly lube in the bores or on rings.
Should use mineral oil or running in oil.


Modern cars are semisynthetic factory fill and thats not causing any problems with bore polishing or oil consumption. Its how you break it in not what oil is used.
On the dyno most OEM break in schedules are run mostly full load at peak power speed to work the ringpack, this is what makes the difference. Back in the 80's you could polish the bores by not working the ringpack and that was using mineral oils.





Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!

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CosKev3

posted on 25/3/21 at 08:44 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chillis
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by chillis
Why would you use break in oil?


It's not recommended to use semi synthetic or fully synthetic oils to run in engines,as they can be that good at lubricating the bores they stop the rings bedding in.
Same reason as you are not meant to use engine assembly lube in the bores or on rings.
Should use mineral oil or running in oil.


Modern cars are semisynthetic factory fill and thats not causing any problems with bore polishing or oil consumption. Its how you break it in not what oil is used.
On the dyno most OEM break in schedules are run mostly full load at peak power speed to work the ringpack, this is what makes the difference. Back in the 80's you could polish the bores by not working the ringpack and that was using mineral oils.


Does the average engine builder have the newer tooling that brand new car engines are built using though?

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snapper

posted on 25/3/21 at 08:11 PM Reply With Quote
Curtesy of that God of engine tuning Dave Baker

Now you're ready to take the car out on the road and bed the piston rings in. To do this requires several brief applications of full throttle in a high gear to generate high cylinder pressures and force the rings against the bore walls. Put the car into 4th or 5th at 1500 to 2000 rpm and apply full throttle for about 10 seconds. Coast along for 30 seconds to dissipate any heat generated and repeat. Do this ten times. It should take about 10 minutes and maybe 5 miles if you don't have too many other cars up your chuff trying to get past.

By now you've already worn off more than 90% of the high spots on the various bits that contact each other. However friction levels inside the engine are still fairly high compared to what they'll eventually settle down to. The next stage is to gradually build up throttle usage and rpm limits. This can take place much faster than many people realise. Drive for 50 to 100 miles with gradually increasing throttle usage and rpm. By the end of this time you should be using full throttle and high rpm for brief periods provided fueling and ignition settings are already optimised. In fact on the road it will be hard to hurt the engine because you'll have to back off for a corner, speed camera or plod car long before you melt the engine. On the track, or maybe on a motorway you might be able to use the engine hard enough to hurt it in the first few miles.

Listen to the engine. Does it feel tight and not want to rev or does it feel free? Hopefully it should sound quite happy by now.

99% of the high spots are now worn off after 100 miles and it's time to change the oil and filter again. Use a high quality non synthetic oil. You can leave this in for either another 1000 miles or until your normal oil change interval. At that point swap to your long term oil which might be a fully synthetic if the engine and your pocket warrants it. The engine should be happy to take pretty much whatever you can throw at it after 100 miles if it's been built right. What you might want to consider is that by the time you've pottered about with your new engine for 3 hours (that's probably at least 100 miles) at say an average of only 3000 rpm it's already done over half a million revolutions! Yes I did say half a million. 3 hours x 60 = 180 minutes x 3000 revs per minute = 540,000. How many times do you think one component with a miniscule high spot has to operate against another component before the high spot gets worn down?

If the engine has been





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bikecarbfred

posted on 16/5/21 at 04:25 PM Reply With Quote
I was wrong!!! The rings had not been bedded in. I had to put in 200ml of oil over 100 miles of driving. short 15-20 miles runs
This was on the fully synthetic.

once on max mark , I then took the plunge and took it for a 50 mile run for 2 hours, road driving , up hills, few dual carriage way run. and it was a mix of gentle, full load 4th, and a few full throttle high rev , sprints.

3 hours after engine off; level is still at max. but i expect once its fully cooled i should check then but I felt so good to see some sort of positive sign.

My question is: after a total of 200 miles on this engine i really wanna switch back to joe gibbs lol but this time 10w40 break in oil . I dont have a cat so I aint bothered how long it is in .

Is it too late. I my self would feel comfortable, ready to hit order on ebay!

[Edited on 16/5/21 by bikecarbfred]

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