Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: Dishwasher problems
Mr Whippy

posted on 25/5/21 at 07:16 AM Reply With Quote
Dishwasher problems

Hi, a bit fed up here. Wondering what do check and in need of some ideas.

My heavily used dishwashers main pump crapped out, didn’t stop but just kept stalling, generally falling apart. So I got another pump which is meant to be a better one. Now every time the machine starts it trips the house breakers! I find it a bit odd as the motor has no earth, is not wet and I put an ohm’s meter on it and could not seem to find a “leak” for all I can tell. It spins freely and looks in perfect condition but runs for only 1 second before going off. The drain cycle works just fine btw, its only when it switches on the main pump there’s a problem. I disconnected the heater in case it was that but still tripped. Was about to cut off the factory plug and replace it with a new one.

Any ideas?? thanks

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
steve m

posted on 25/5/21 at 07:50 AM Reply With Quote
Rubber gloves ?

Im no electrician, but it sounds like its either stalled, or demanding more current than it can get, is it worth plugging it into another circuit with an extension lead just to try out another circuit





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 25/5/21 at 07:57 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Rubber gloves ?

Im no electrician, but it sounds like its either stalled, or demanding more current than it can get, is it worth plugging it into another circuit with an extension lead just to try out another circuit


Yeah I can try that one out, thanks. I think the pump is rated higher than the original but the old pump doesn't have a watt value on it so not sure. It definitely turns as I can hear the water blast inside.

One idea I had was to just get a plug with a wire and then just use two spade connectors straight onto the motor and the earth onto the machine frame, then turn it on and if it trips I know nothing else is involved. If it doesn't trip then I know it's another part of the machine. Probably a good example of bad DIY electrical investigating

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
ken555

posted on 25/5/21 at 08:02 AM Reply With Quote
~Wrong type of breaker, if I remember right there are ones that don't break on surges, more sustained current.

Quick google suggests this:

A Type C device may be substituted for a Type B device where unwanted tripping persists.

[Edited on 25-5-21 by ken555]






View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
cliftyhanger

posted on 25/5/21 at 08:42 AM Reply With Quote
Hang on a moment.
Is the RCD tripping or the overcurrent breaker?
I expect the circuit the dishwasher is plugged into is on a 20, or more likely 32A breaker. If the motor is tripping a 20A breaker in a second, te surge current is over 50A (I could look it up, but you get the idea) If that is the case, the motor is faulty.

Dishwashers are earthed, usually to the metal chassis. So I would expect the motor to be earthed somewhere. But if the RCD is tripping, some electricity is escaping to earth, causing the RCD to trip. Again, motor is faulty.

Changing the plug won't affect anything.

(I do PAT testing in stacks of student houses, but even that doesn't always show faults. You don't get an earth leak until the main pump kicks in, but that doesn't happen when the tester is plugged in.)

You could be brave/stupid, remove the earth, and the measure the voltage between the dishwasher and the house earth when it is running. But I wouldn't recommend it... could be the end of you.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 25/5/21 at 09:41 AM Reply With Quote
So I replaced the plug and the flex had a dent in it. That seemed to get the machine running fine, for like 5 mins! then it just trips the breaker again. It's not the individual circuit breakers but the big main one that's switching off the whole house! I don't know what type it is. It has not blown the 13A fuse in the plug.

The pump itself does not have a earth, there's only 2 connections, I've basically done this conversion - Youtube Linky. There is an earth wire which is connected to the heater casing & the frame of the machine but does not go to the motor. I'm wondering if the salt in the soap is now earthing the fault and that's why it ran fine at first...?

There is a small drip out the bottom of the new pump, it's not clear where that's coming from, I have put a plate under it! and now the machine is full of hot soapy water The controls are very basic as is the machine.





[Edited on 25/5/21 by Mr Whippy]

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
40inches

posted on 25/5/21 at 10:27 AM Reply With Quote
Those permanent magnet pumps are sh*t, I eventually got fed up replacing them under warranty and advised customers to bite the bullet and replace the DW for under £200 and take out a 5 year warranty.
I should add that I repaired Domestic Appliances for over 45 years, until I retired 2 years ago. We purchased a Curries Essentials DW for less than £200 two years ago with an extended warranty.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
cliftyhanger

posted on 25/5/21 at 10:46 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
So I replaced the plug and the flex had a dent in it. That seemed to get the machine running fine, for like 5 mins! then it just trips the breaker again. It's not the individual circuit breakers but the big main one that's switching off the whole house! I don't know what type it is. It has not blown the 13A fuse in the plug.

The pump itself does not have a earth, there's only 2 connections, I've basically done this conversion - Youtube Linky. There is an earth wire which is connected to the heater casing & the frame of the machine but does not go to the motor. I'm wondering if the salt in the soap is now earthing the fault and that's why it ran fine at first...?

There is a small drip out the bottom of the new pump, it's not clear where that's coming from, I have put a plate under it! and now the machine is full of hot soapy water The controls are very basic as is the machine.





[Edited on 25/5/21 by Mr Whippy]


The big switch you refer to is an RCD. It should have a test button that you should press every six months (used to recommend 3 months, but that changed)
At least it works....

It trips when the amount of current going out is more than returning. So some is escaping to earth. It cant go anywhere else.

Sounds like the motor being wet is the issue now.

And yes, having had rental properties for many years, we buy the cheap appliances, and a 5yr warranty. But have very few callouts (I look after about 8 properties, and have doe for 25 years. Had 5 repairs under warranty, after 5 years we just replace when they go wrong)

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
SteveWalker

posted on 25/5/21 at 10:58 AM Reply With Quote
As it's only happening after 5 minutes, it must be either water seeping out and taking that time to get to something electrical or something switching on at that point (heater or drain pump).

As for getting rid of the water that's in the machine - pull the machine out and to your back door, keeping the drain hose high, then put the drain hose out of the door and lower it right down and it will drain.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
BenB

posted on 25/5/21 at 12:30 PM Reply With Quote
If the pump died the heater element might well have over-heated and fused in which case you'll get an earth fault current when the heater switches on. Can you temporarily disconnect the wires going to the element (make sure you wrap them in insulation tape to prevent a short)? Then run the dishwasher and see what happens....
View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 25/5/21 at 01:05 PM Reply With Quote
Yes the big breaker has a test button, it's the only one that goes. I did try disconnecting the heater before but nothing changed, good suggestion though. I guess it's earthing between the motor and the heater seeing their so close. Damn annoying I thought I had it sorted. Still dripping water.... Thanks for the advance. I need to take the pump off now and send it back.

Cheers.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
steve m

posted on 25/5/21 at 04:43 PM Reply With Quote
RCD's do wear out, especially if they have constantly tripped out, or /and been tested regularly

I changed two in my Daughters house just for this reason,





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 25/5/21 at 07:42 PM Reply With Quote
Gave up on the machine as its over 10 years old and have just got an almost new Bosch one from Gumtree for £100, works perfectly

Thanks for the help. Sending the duff motor back for a refund...

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
steve m

posted on 25/5/21 at 09:21 PM Reply With Quote
Ive never paid more than £160 brand new, and last a few years. then throw away





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
coyoteboy

posted on 26/5/21 at 02:14 PM Reply With Quote
Mine was £180 and has been operating for 10 years, so far it's lost a control board which cost me 45 quid - I probably won't be able to get replacement parts soon anyway

Good choice, make your life simple. I've started to realise my time (and mental health) is worth more than saving a few tens of quids!





Report your local potholes, it actually works!

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content © 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [© 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.