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Author: Subject: MXV6 MK3 (NC)
Dockie

posted on 13/2/22 at 08:13 PM Reply With Quote
MXV6 MK3 (NC)

Hello! First time poster, not sure if this should be in the build logs or MX5 section, so feel free to move appropriately.

Some of you may have heard of Rocketeer's MXV6 Kit available for purchase, which allows you to drop a jaguar AJ30 into a MK1/2 MX5. My idea is to beat them to the MK3 version. It won't be as elegant as their kit, i don't have access to anywhere near the amount of tooling they do, but nonetheless, the end result will be the same.

As the NC has can-bus, my plan is to leave it alone and make it *think* its running an engine, whereas a MegaSquirt ECU will actually be running the AJ30. I want this thing to look completely stock from the outside, until it's started up. clearance will be a challenge i suspect, but as the NC is based on an RX8 chassis, it should go in a bit easier than on a NA/NB. It should also be strong enough to handle this power without any major modifications (and a lot of the minor mods i will have to make will be a straight bolt on from the RX8, brakes, ARBs, etc).

This thread is mainly to keep track of things, show my progress, and make it easier to figure out the total cost when finished! Ideally, i'd like for this whole conversion to cost no more than Rocketeers kit alone. It gives me a budget of around £6500


Without further ado, some pics.

The Donor Car:


A 1999 3.0 Jaguar S Type. Real shame to be breaking it, it drives lovely. My only complaint is its auto, felt so disconnected from the actual driving experience with this one change alone.





Just about ready to pull.





Finally out, along with a few extras. The rocker covers are getting painted, the flywheel is removed and ready to be modified, and there's a few boxes of stuff there (MegaSquirt, new flywheel, fuel pressure regulator, Gearbox adapter plate.)

This is about where i'm up to at the minute. i have the mondeo inlet, just waiting on some aluminium to make some adapters to match it to the engine. Picking up some RX8 parts towards the end of the week (gearbox, ARB's, brake calipers, driveshaft and ppf)

[Edited on 14/2/22 by Dockie]

[Edited on 14/2/22 by Dockie]

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theconrodkid

posted on 14/2/22 at 08:03 AM Reply With Quote
good luck with the project, making an MX5 what it should have been from the factory





who cares who wins
pass the pork pies

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big_wasa

posted on 14/2/22 at 08:46 AM Reply With Quote
Very cool project. I am interested in how you will approach the sump, starter and clutch.
Doesn't Rocketeer put the starter under the sump to give room for the exhaust primaries.

Have you seen Retroford already do a kit for the zetec.

Having got both boxes the Nc/7 is definitely smaller and lighter. But the rx8 has the 1" 23 spline first motion shaft making the clutch easier.

Edit, you going for the Rx8 box in stead of the mx5 box ?

[Edited on 14/2/22 by big_wasa]

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Dockie

posted on 14/2/22 at 03:07 PM Reply With Quote
@theconrodkid
Thanks! Especially the NC, the 4 cylinder it got was never enough for this car.

@big_wasa
The sump is getting changed to an x-type sump- if it'll fit. i may need to get the rocketeer sump instead, but that's something i'm going to look at when i come to fit it.
The starter is staying where it is (bolts straight to the adapter plate).
The clutch will be from a mondeo (as will the flywheel, see below)

I hadn't seen Retrofords kits actually, ill have to have a look and see if there is anything i can use on there.

As for the box, I intend to use an RX8 box with an adapter plate. This box should be plenty for the power going through it. The shaft goes straight into a Mondeo clutch, which i can get off the shelf, i just have to modify the Mondeo flywheel to take the jag starter ring (as well as a bit of cutting on the bell housing).
The extra length on the gearbox may not be a bad thing, considering the engine itself is a good 6" or so shorter than the standard one (we measured it as one Stanley knife shorter, very precise ), it'll pull it away from the firewall enough so i can drop the exhausts down between it and the engine if need be.

Once i get the covers done i can finish sorting the inlet out, but after that i'm at a bit of a stand still until i get the flywheel sorted - i have a place locally that are willing to do it, but their machinist is off with a broken foot until mid march

[Edited on 14/2/22 by Dockie]

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big_wasa

posted on 14/2/22 at 05:18 PM Reply With Quote
I made mine work with the ford ring gear.

https://youtu.be/l01vP9_wnm4

https://youtu.be/Glc6eYPDDx4

Leaving the starter there may give issues with the tunel. It definitely doesnít leave much room for manifolds.



[Edited on 14/2/22 by big_wasa]

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big_wasa

posted on 14/2/22 at 05:21 PM Reply With Quote
The RetroFord kit is for the N7 box to Zetec.
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40inches

posted on 14/2/22 at 05:24 PM Reply With Quote
The x-type sump will fit, you will also need the x-type pick up
Description
Description
Description
Description

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Partofthechaos

posted on 14/2/22 at 05:57 PM Reply With Quote
Ah, someone else using the AJ30! Have you got the MX5 yet? I'm interested to see how it could fit.
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Dockie

posted on 14/2/22 at 06:53 PM Reply With Quote
Oh my, please excuse me. Being new around here, i didn't realize how experienced you all were! some great insights.

@big_wasa
Those videos are worth their weight in gold! That's the plate i have, so not needing to mess with the flywheel is actually a huge hurdle sorted. Already got the ST170 starter ordered! The tunnel is something i'm going to look at when i come to fitting, where there's a will, there's a way

@40inches
My worry is it'll hang too low below the car. I don't suppose you have any measurements on how deep that sump is?

@Partofthechaos
Yes, but its my daily at the minute. I can get measurements and things for figuring stuff out, but without removing the engine, i can't say for certain.

(as an aside, 40inches/Partofthechaos, is this either of you by chance?)

[Edited on 14/2/22 by Dockie]

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big_wasa

posted on 14/2/22 at 08:12 PM Reply With Quote
Yep I donít intend on shortening the gearbox either

Swap the bendix, move the holes. And job done in your garage.


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big_wasa

posted on 14/2/22 at 08:15 PM Reply With Quote
And shorter flywheel bolts are from a bmw mini.

See this thread.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=215256&page=1

Also check out Ian and kevs insane builds

[Edited on 14/2/22 by big_wasa]

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Dockie

posted on 14/2/22 at 08:47 PM Reply With Quote
I'm pleasantly surprised at how helpful you've all been, thank you!
I didn't intend on shortening the gearbox either - AFAIK it still sits on the splines without modification.

Already got a wealth of knowledge from your posts, and i'm not a million miles from some of you if i get stuck with things (if i'm right in thinking kev = 40inches, hes just south of sheff, i'm just east of Doncaster)

I don't suppose anyone around here makes the st200 -> jag inlet adapters? I'm sure i've seen it in someones post, but i can't for the life of me find it anymore! It would save me doing it by hand if someone has the proper tooling.

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Partofthechaos

posted on 14/2/22 at 10:07 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dockie

(as an aside, 40inches/Partofthechaos, is this either of you by chance?)

[Edited on 14/2/22 by Dockie]


I wish! I'm not far ahead of you currently. In fact given how long it's taken me to get to this point I'm probably behind. I'm about to buy the clutch, sort the starter motor, then I can do the engine mounts.

I think that's Kev there, the same car is on the RX8 adapters website.

Shortening the bell housing was a faff, but really useful for me as I'm very tight on space. Easier if you don't have to.

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40inches

posted on 14/2/22 at 10:57 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dockie


Already got a wealth of knowledge from your posts, and i'm not a million miles from some of you if i get stuck with things (if i'm right in thinking kev = 40inches, hes just south of sheff, i'm just east of Doncaster)



Kev is CosKev3, he is in Oswestry in Shropshire.
I live in Eckington, around 2 miles from J30-M1. You are welcome to pop over anytime, just U2U me for my address

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Dockie

posted on 14/2/22 at 11:07 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by Dockie


Already got a wealth of knowledge from your posts, and i'm not a million miles from some of you if i get stuck with things (if i'm right in thinking kev = 40inches, hes just south of sheff, i'm just east of Doncaster)



Kev is CosKev3, he is in Oswestry in Shropshire.
I live in Eckington, around 2 miles from J30-M1. You are welcome to pop over anytime, just U2U me for my address


IIRC thats the Barlborough/Worksop turn off? Really not far (I'm just outside Gainsborough, lincs. An hour at most). Ill have to come down sometime and get some ideas from your build, maybe i can bribe you with beer for your MegaSquirt settings ( i think its you that has it running on a MS?)

[Edited on 14/2/22 by Dockie]

[Edited on 14/2/22 by Dockie]

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40inches

posted on 15/2/22 at 09:07 AM Reply With Quote
Yea that's the junction, we are about 400 metres from Renishaw Hall gates.
I run MS2extra, all the msq. will cost you is your email address Mine was mapped by Kits and Classics in Chesterfield.

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CosKev3

posted on 15/2/22 at 10:27 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dockie

I didn't intend on shortening the gearbox either - AFAIK it still sits on the splines without modification.




If you don't have the bell housing milled down the gearbox input shaft doesn't sit into the rear of the crankshaft far enough.

So you would then need to machine up some sort of spacer to allow the spigot bearing to sit outside the rear of the crank for the gearbox shaft to sit into it.

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Oddified

posted on 15/2/22 at 09:38 PM Reply With Quote
On some of the duratec v6 installs, there is an extension bush pressed into the crankshaft to move out the spigot bearing as standard. I machined my own to get the spacing right for the adaptor plate/Audi 01e gearbox input shaft in my car without having to mod the bell housing.

Ian

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CosKev3

posted on 15/2/22 at 10:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
On some of the duratec v6 installs, there is an extension bush pressed into the crankshaft to move out the spigot bearing as standard. I machined my own to get the spacing right for the adaptor plate/Audi 01e gearbox input shaft in my car without having to mod the bell housing.

Ian


This is RX8 box related more than general V6 Duratec

If you mill the bell housing down the gearbox input shaft sits into the rear of the crank far enough, the clutch plate sits in the same place on the splines as Mazda designed it to,and you retain the standard movement/position of the clutch arm too.

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Dockie

posted on 15/2/22 at 10:42 PM Reply With Quote
Thankyou, looks like i'm going to have to get it milled down then.
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big_wasa

posted on 16/2/22 at 02:03 PM Reply With Quote
Whilst kev's way is tried and tested it does rely on some skill with the guy doing it.
Its not quite as simple as whipping the grinder out.
Then there is the hassle down the line if you need to replace the box.
Pretty much all the other conversions I've come across away from the Rx8 usse a spigot bearing extension.

Clutch pivot points are more achievable in "the shed" than keeping the box true.

I think this conversion could be so much bigger if it was more diy friendly.

Just my two bob

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Partofthechaos

posted on 16/2/22 at 02:30 PM Reply With Quote
There was a link in one of these threads to a stepped bearing that would provide this additional support, but I can't find it currently. The bell housing can be separated, so a nuked gearbox could still be replaced without going through it all again, it is definitely more of faff though.

I found a local engineering place to do it, cost £60 which is their hourly rate. Not massive, but more than the bearing would have been. I went for it as the space saving is important in my application.

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Dockie

posted on 16/2/22 at 03:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Pretty much all the other conversions I've come across away from the Rx8 use a spigot bearing extension.

...

I think this conversion could be so much bigger if it was more diy friendly.


I appreciate the feedback

If you come across the post for the extension, let me know. I want to do as much as possible myself.
That said... i don't have access to mills etc, i can muster up a lathe, a bench drill, a grinder and a MIG/TIG welder but that's about as fancy as it gets for me. I am, however, in a lucky situation that anything i really can't do (ie, laser cutting the gearbox adapter plate, milling the gearbox) i can buy or get an engineering firm to do for me, we have about 6 different companies locally, one even specializes in applications for cars. (the one thing i do wish i could buy though, is the inlet manifold adapters, but again, engineering firms)

The three things going into this i knew i couldn't do myself was the adapter plate, the driveshaft and (potentially) the flywheel. Thanks to your video i no longer need to modify the flywheel, however i have now discovered i need to mill the gearbox instead, so i'm still only at 3 things i can't DIY.

It just comes down to what tools people can lay their hands on and how comfortable they feel with DIYing it themselves. For instance, i'm comfortable with wiring and setting up/tuning the MS on the engine, but 40inches' msq file just saves me alot of the legwork. Why do something if you don't need to?

Also bear in mind that i don't think anyone has actually put an AJ30 into the MK3, so this is off my own back with just applied knowledge from other peoples projects, not meant as a full on 'heres how to do it'.


[Edited on 16/2/22 by Dockie]

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Dockie

posted on 6/3/22 at 12:36 AM Reply With Quote
Been a while since my last post, a bit of progress







Found a Mazda Dealership (of all people! Perry's in Blackburn) breaking an RX8, so for a grand total of £250 + half a tank of diesel, i've managed to pick up a Gearbox, Driveshaft, PPF, Antiroll bars and a complete set of brake calipers, result!

Managed to get the starter sorted thanks to big_wasa's video, had a small hiccup of the starter engaging but not turning. After rebuilding the starter numerous times and a good nights sleep, we realized we hadn't earthed the starter casing just waiting on some mig wire to move the holes in the adapter plate now. Also noticed that, for the 5 speed, one of the holes doesn't line up. I assume the plate was made for the 6 speed box, as it's a good 20mm or so out, going to look at that at some point too.

Also, my x-type pickup and sump arrived (£93.59) as well as my new fuel rail (£13.30. My AJ30 is an older one with the plastic rail, swapped it out for a metal one), i think i'm going to JUST have enough room to not need the Rocketeer sump. Clutch and sump gasket is ordered (£162.65 + £29.44).

Things left to get for definite are:

  1. Brake disks
  2. Brake Rebuild kit (they actually look alright, but since i'm taking them apart to paint, may as well rebuild while im at it)
  3. Braided Clutch hose
  4. Drive shaft modified (once the engine is in)
  5. Possibly engine mounts (again, once the engine is in)
  6. Ally for the inlet adapters



[Edited on 6/3/22 by Dockie]

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CosKev3

posted on 6/3/22 at 10:01 AM Reply With Quote
'Also noticed that, for the 5 speed, one of the holes doesn't line up. I assume the plate was made for the 6 speed box, as it's a good 20mm or so out, going to look at that at some point too.'

Oh strange,as surely the engines are the same bolt pattern?

I've got a 5 speed in my garage for my next project,I'll have to try my adapter plate on it......

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