Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: Fiesta - ditching ABS
Mr Whippy

posted on 21/5/22 at 10:46 PM Reply With Quote
Fiesta - ditching ABS

Hi,

My little Fiesta now and again has ABS issues, seems to get confused even a low speeds and the front purrs away, even when pulling into a parking space! Then the ABS warning light comes on, then goes off, comes on again round corners, yeah its just crap. Most of the time it seems to be deactivated even when I jump on the brakes.

Seeing that I've mostly driven cars that didn't have ABS. I find when it comes on very distracting through the pedal and not very effective ether. Hence I was thinking of taking off the pump/value thingy, re-piping it (I've already replace it all in copper) & pulling the fuse out so the ABS warning light doesn't come on.

Off course I'll mention it to the insurance but as far as I'm aware it is not an MOT requirement anyway, just like on a kit car?

Any views, other than you are going to die!

[Edited on 21/5/22 by Mr Whippy]

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
gremlin1234

posted on 22/5/22 at 07:33 AM Reply With Quote
it can be removed from a pre 2010 car,

1.6. Anti-lock braking system (ABS)

You must inspect any ABS systems fitted.

When testing ABS equipped vehicles, the road wheels that are lifted off the ground should not be allowed to rotate when the ignition is on. This can cause the ABS system to indicate a fault which may require specialist equipment to rectify.

If the ABS has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. This does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component, such as a brake disc or drive shaft.

Its not permissible to remove or disable the ABS from a vehicle first used on or after 1 January 2010. Not all vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2010 will have ABS, so the failure only applies where the system has obviously been removed.

Defect Category
(a) Warning device not working Major
(b) Warning device shows system malfunction Major
(c) Wheel speed sensors missing or damaged Major
(d) Wiring damaged Major
(e) Other components missing or damaged Major
(f) ABS system obviously removed Major

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
ReMan

posted on 22/5/22 at 08:02 AM Reply With Quote
What have you done to try and fix it?
HAve you had a code reader on it to see what it thinks is wrong?
Most common is a wheel sensor or abs ring and these are cheap fixes





www.plusnine.co.uk
∙،. ˘≈ﺣ

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   ReMan 's ICQ status
obfripper

posted on 22/5/22 at 12:22 PM Reply With Quote
The usual problem with ford abs systems is the flexible wire to the sensor develops a break in the conductor, causing the signal to break up when the suspension/steering is moving.

On the front, the wiring to the sensor is part of the loom, at the rear the wiring is part of the sensor, ford do a repair section of loom for the front that needs soldering in place of the failed section, iirc they list it as a part for an rs focus mk2, but is used on most fords of that generation.

It's best to get the codes read, and possibly check the live data to confirm this, a cheap elm327 and forscan should be suitable for this. If the signal on one wheel drops to zero intermittently, it will be the aformentioned issue. If the signal fluctuates in comparison with the others there could be corrosion on the magnetic bearing seal that provides the trigger for the sensor, usually this gives you a permanent code/light but can be intermittent.

The other thing to consider if you are going to remove the abs, is there is no limiter valve on the rear braking circuit so in the wet the car would be likely to spin under emergency braking without fitting a pressure limiter/bias valve.

Dave

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 22/5/22 at 01:12 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
it can be removed from a pre 2010 car,

1.6. Anti-lock braking system (ABS)

You must inspect any ABS systems fitted.

When testing ABS equipped vehicles, the road wheels that are lifted off the ground should not be allowed to rotate when the ignition is on. This can cause the ABS system to indicate a fault which may require specialist equipment to rectify.

If the ABS has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. This does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component, such as a brake disc or drive shaft.

Its not permissible to remove or disable the ABS from a vehicle first used on or after 1 January 2010. Not all vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2010 will have ABS, so the failure only applies where the system has obviously been removed.

Defect Category
(a) Warning device not working Major
(b) Warning device shows system malfunction Major
(c) Wheel speed sensors missing or damaged Major
(d) Wiring damaged Major
(e) Other components missing or damaged Major
(f) ABS system obviously removed Major



That's great thanks I've not seen that before, very helpful

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
Mr Whippy

posted on 22/5/22 at 01:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper

The other thing to consider if you are going to remove the abs, is there is no limiter valve on the rear braking circuit so in the wet the car would be likely to spin under emergency braking without fitting a pressure limiter/bias valve.

Dave


That is a very good point and my first thought is there will be no bias valve fitted. However the car has disks at the front and small drums at the rear so that should address that problem. Certainly as I've been driving around with the ABS disabled and its road manors are typical Fiesta.

Lots of great info, thanks.

[Edited on 22/5/22 by Mr Whippy]

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
obfripper

posted on 22/5/22 at 02:19 PM Reply With Quote
It's more if you need to do an emergency stop halfway round a corner on a wet road, the size of the drums won't matter here.

The very early mk6 were non abs, and have a inline brake pressure valve part no 1469610 on each of the rear circuits to stop lockup, there are no other differences to the rear brakes on an abs car.

Dave

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
coyoteboy

posted on 23/5/22 at 01:45 PM Reply With Quote
If it's not an electrical fault on the front wiring, as mentioned earlier, you might find your rears are just non-functional. I had similar symptoms with my rear sliders seized on one car, because the rear end was doing nothing functional, the fronts were slipping with the slightest braking and when the ABS kicked in, the braking suddenly got awful. Fixed the rear sliders, ABS rarely came on and when it did, I didn't notice a reduction in brake force.





Report your local potholes, it actually works!

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
loggyboy

posted on 23/5/22 at 02:01 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
That is a very good point and my first thought is there will be no bias valve fitted. However the car has disks at the front and small drums at the rear so that should address that problem. Certainly as I've been driving around with the ABS disabled and its road manors are typical Fiesta.
Lots of great info, thanks.

[Edited on 22/5/22 by Mr Whippy]


Thats a big assumtion, as size of disc/drum wont help if the MC sizes have been designed to suit less/more bias levels.
Another thing to consider will be any traction control etc, as these use the ABS and whilst removing the ABS will tick the MoT box, if it results in a ESP failure then you will just fail the MoT on that instead.
I know that the Clios suffer from that issue when the ABS is removed. When its just 'failed', ie the abs isnt isnt working due to a sensor failure or simlar, the bias function still works, despite the abs being 'off'

[Edited on 23-5-22 by loggyboy]





Mistral Motorsport

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 24/5/22 at 11:34 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
If it's not an electrical fault on the front wiring, as mentioned earlier, you might find your rears are just non-functional. I had similar symptoms with my rear sliders seized on one car, because the rear end was doing nothing functional, the fronts were slipping with the slightest braking and when the ABS kicked in, the braking suddenly got awful. Fixed the rear sliders, ABS rarely came on and when it did, I didn't notice a reduction in brake force.


Cheers but all of the wheel braking is new, I replaced it all. I think it is only the front wheels, possibly the driver side that is causing the issue as that is where the noise is coming from. When it does go wrong the car takes about twice as long to stop, even in the dry. When the ABS light comes on and it disables the system the brakes are great.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
Mr Whippy

posted on 24/5/22 at 11:44 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
That is a very good point and my first thought is there will be no bias valve fitted. However the car has disks at the front and small drums at the rear so that should address that problem. Certainly as I've been driving around with the ABS disabled and its road manors are typical Fiesta.
Lots of great info, thanks.

[Edited on 22/5/22 by Mr Whippy]


Thats a big assumtion, as size of disc/drum wont help if the MC sizes have been designed to suit less/more bias levels.
Another thing to consider will be any traction control etc, as these use the ABS and whilst removing the ABS will tick the MoT box, if it results in a ESP failure then you will just fail the MoT on that instead.
I know that the Clios suffer from that issue when the ABS is removed. When its just 'failed', ie the abs isnt isnt working due to a sensor failure or simlar, the bias function still works, despite the abs being 'off'

[Edited on 23-5-22 by loggyboy]


It definitely doesn't have traction control, it's a 04 base model Fiesta with hand crank windows and my only accessory button is the rear demist

It has all of 70hp and is driven at 55mph most of the time on the dual carriageway so I'm not overly concerned with bias balance braking round corners. Certainly it brakes considerably better than my old landrovers with their dodgy unbalance unbiased drum brakes.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
SJ

posted on 24/5/22 at 12:13 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
That is a very good point and my first thought is there will be no bias valve fitted. However the car has disks at the front and small drums at the rear so that should address that problem. Certainly as I've been driving around with the ABS disabled and its road manors are typical Fiesta.
Lots of great info, thanks.

[Edited on 22/5/22 by Mr Whippy]


Thats a big assumtion, as size of disc/drum wont help if the MC sizes have been designed to suit less/more bias levels.
Another thing to consider will be any traction control etc, as these use the ABS and whilst removing the ABS will tick the MoT box, if it results in a ESP failure then you will just fail the MoT on that instead.
I know that the Clios suffer from that issue when the ABS is removed. When its just 'failed', ie the abs isnt isnt working due to a sensor failure or simlar, the bias function still works, despite the abs being 'off'

[Edited on 23-5-22 by loggyboy]


It definitely doesn't have traction control, it's a 04 base model Fiesta with hand crank windows and my only accessory button is the rear demist

It has all of 70hp and is driven at 55mph most of the time on the dual carriageway so I'm not overly concerned with bias balance braking round corners. Certainly it brakes considerably better than my old landrovers with their dodgy unbalance unbiased drum brakes.


Have you considered insurance? As it is a modification you would need to declare it.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
adithorp

posted on 24/5/22 at 07:35 PM Reply With Quote
It's not "just crap", it's faulty Surely it's simpler to trace and fix the fault.





"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire

http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
mcerd1

posted on 24/5/22 at 08:59 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Cheers but all of the wheel braking is new, I replaced it all.


did you replace any of the sensors ?

I had a dead front sensor on my c-max, showed up on the code reader - fair enough the cars old and done plenty miles
so I changed the sensor, didn't sort it, so I got another sensor and then the wheel bearing (that it reads off) still no joy...

until I worked out it was just the aftermarket sensors were total crap (at 60 each - new ford ones were 150 )


in the end I just got a complete crusty hub out of the scrapyard for couple of with an OE senor in it, soaked it in loads of penetrating oil - then swapped the sensor over and its worked perfectly ever since


moral is don't buy the 'cheap' sensors from the motorfactors!

[Edited on 24/5/2022 by mcerd1]

[Edited on 24/5/2022 by mcerd1]





- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 25/5/22 at 07:15 AM Reply With Quote
No but I do seem to have quite a bit of bearing float on the front wheels and the ABS pick up is on the bearing seal face unlike the normal toothed driveshaft . I suspect that either the pickup has been worn away or the clearances are too great which would explain why the ABS like comes on mostly going round corners. This month I'll replace both front uprights with new ones. Getting the old sensors out without breaking them seems very difficult as they seem welded in by rust.
View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
adithorp

posted on 25/5/22 at 07:33 AM Reply With Quote
Replace the uprights? Just put a new bearing in. Toothed reluctor rings are getting less prevalent than magnetic ones in the bearing seal. Be sure to fit the bearing the right way around.
You will be lucky to get the sensor out without damaging it though. Just don't try a cheap replacement.





"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire

http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
mcerd1

posted on 25/5/22 at 07:53 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Replace the uprights? Just put a new bearing in. Toothed reluctor rings are getting less prevalent than magnetic ones in the bearing seal. Be sure to fit the bearing the right way around.
You will be lucky to get the sensor out without damaging it though. Just don't try a cheap replacement.

^^ what he said

but if you do need to swap sensors - I got my 'new' sensor out a hub that looked like it had spent 10 years in the sea, lots or penetrating oil and even more patience...





- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
MarcV

posted on 25/5/22 at 08:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
No but I do seem to have quite a bit of bearing float on the front wheels and the ABS pick up is on the bearing seal face unlike the normal toothed driveshaft . I suspect that either the pickup has been worn away or the clearances are too great which would explain why the ABS like comes on mostly going round corners. This month I'll replace both front uprights with new ones. Getting the old sensors out without breaking them seems very difficult as they seem welded in by rust.


I don't know about the Fiesta system, but the ABS systems I am familiar with also use a steering angle sensor. As you mention it is mainly around the corners it could be this sensor being faulty or in need of recalibration.

The idea of ABS being that difference in wheel speed would indicate brake lock-up while there is actually a difference in wheel speed expected when going around a corner.

In any case actually ABS circuits are not all that difficult and I would also suggest to fix rather than to try and delete.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [ 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.