Ugg10
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| posted on 29/6/24 at 02:35 PM |
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Bike engine?
Been a while since I posted, still working on the Anglia but also still keeping an eye on the kit car scene.
Anyway, been thinking about bike engine cars and what engines outside the standard Gixxer, ZX10/14, Fireblade, Hyabusa and R1 might work well.
Stumbled across the VFR1200F, v4, 170hp/100ftlb at the wheels, redline at 10k rpm, slipper clutch, shaft drive (final ratio 2.54) and running bikes
available from a round 2010 for £2500 upwards and looks an interesting option. The shaft drive means the engine would be in the same orientation as
the bike so hopefully no oil surge issues, only negative may be that it would sit slightly on the drivers side which is not the best for weight
distribution.
One thing I can’t seem to work out or find info on is whether the drive for the shaft turns the right way to connect to a car diff (Sierra, mx5,
freelancer, BMW) or whether the diff would end inverting. Anyone know?
Oh, and if you are brave it comes with the option of a DCT gearbox.
Anyway, anyone else looked into this engine or even used it and have comments on it suitability for a kit car, either a seven or a mid engine
layout?
Pic of engine for reference showing shaft drive output.
Untitled by A H, on Flickr
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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40inches
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| posted on 30/6/24 at 10:03 AM |
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That looks a cracking engine and the DCT would be my choice
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Ugg10
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| posted on 30/6/24 at 01:02 PM |
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Thinking a bit more, as the engine will sit more on the driver’s you will probably need reverse master cylinders mounted on top of the pedal box. I
think the DAC Rush did this so very possible but would allow the ending to be immediately forward of the drivers pedal box.
Untitled by A H, on Flickr
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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adampage
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| posted on 1/7/24 at 08:20 AM |
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Upside down....
Hey - i'm sure you've thought of this but the drive will go the 'wrong' way so you'll need to have a backwards diff like a
front diff from a sierra cosworth etc.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 1/7/24 at 04:26 PM |
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@adampage thanks, this was one of the things I wasn’t sure of. Could not find which way the drive shaft rotated. Can you just run the standard Sierra
diff upside down to get the wheel rotation the other way, similar to turning the Porsche 911 box upside down for mid engine applications like Ultima,
GT0 etc? You might need to add an oil filler tap on the bottom (now top) but not a difficult thing to do and it will obviously need new
mounts/cradle.
[Edited on 1/7/24 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Ugg10
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| posted on 1/7/24 at 04:45 PM |
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I guess you could also use a reverse box like those available from Elite or Quaife and run it permanently in reverse mode. Not sure how long it would
last though using it like this.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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adampage
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| posted on 1/7/24 at 05:01 PM |
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Bit hard to visualise and describe...:)
... so this is how I think about it....
That output is on the left of the bike (i.e. the shaft runs down the left of the back wheel).
Therefore if you think about it, it has to rotate clockwise (looking at the back of the engine as in your photo below) to make the wheel rotate
forwards.
Same as a VMax, a BMW K1600GT, a GoldWing and plenty of others.
There are a handful of other bikes (Pan European, older BMW K1150/1200/1250s, etc) where the shaft is on the right side of the bike / back wheel, so
they rotate anti-clockwise. No idea why they choose each one and why they change them (BMW flipped the K and R series bikes).
Now as i understand it you could just flip a sierra diff but the gears would be running backwards constantly (flipping it doesn't change the
input, only the output), so it would wear prematurely. Same with running a reverse box backwards, can certainly be done but might be risky.
So that's why i think the ideal option would be a front cosworth diff (or from another car with a 4wd system and a separate front diff - Porsche
911 Carrera 4 maybe  . But they're not very easy to get hold of and could be expensive.
Remember - It that also means the weight distribution is different. In yours the block will be right of centre, but if you had one with the shaft on
the other side, the weight would be left of centreline.
So - I think it would be an easier idea if you could find an engine from a 'bike with driveshaft on the right' but unfortunately
there's no VFR like that and not all that many others..... Like I say, Pan Euro, older BMWs, an oooold Kawasaki K1300, and a few others.
Hope you can make it work because I think it sounds cool!
Ad
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Ugg10
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| posted on 1/7/24 at 07:58 PM |
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Many thanks again for the info. As you said, spec of the engine is very appealing but integration into the car, especially a Seven style, does have a
number of down sides , namely, engine rotation direction and finding suitable diff and it being located on the drivers side making getting a good
weight distribution difficult.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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JoelP
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| posted on 1/7/24 at 08:51 PM |
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Re weight distribution, it would lend itself nicely to using a pair to power both axles separately. Maybe both in the back would fit easier though.
The semi auto box certainty avoid one problem, of the two engines ending up in different gears...
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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adampage
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| posted on 1/7/24 at 08:57 PM |
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Yeah it can be tricky
It might be worth looking at Trikes, they're usually shaft drive, wonder if they just swap over a Reliant axle? Maybe check their forums.
There are actually quite a few Sierra 4x4 front diffs on ebay but not sure how you get the driveshafts and prop set up. There might be another way.
Or if you've not bought the engine yet - I had a car with an ST1100 Pan European, I've seen BMW K or R engines (just get an earlier twin as
more recent have switched to 'left-swingarms', I think Moto Guzzi are right side, and I would love an old Kawazaki Z1300 because they sound
awesome....
Good luck...
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Slimy38
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| posted on 2/7/24 at 08:55 AM |
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I'm going to plead ignorance here, couldn't you mount the engine centrally and just have the driveshaft running at an angle? It only appears
to be maybe six inches at most, maybe the passenger might lose a bit of foot space? Passenger comfort vs a 'normal' pedal box and better
weight distribution?
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/7/24 at 12:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I'm going to plead ignorance here, couldn't you mount the engine centrally and just have the driveshaft running at an angle? It only appears
to be maybe six inches at most, maybe the passenger might lose a bit of foot space? Passenger comfort vs a 'normal' pedal box and better
weight distribution?
Yes, or some compromise thereof. I suspect the steering column would be the problem, not the pedal box, and the steering wouldn't be as hard to
make space for.
I'd be more concerned about the weight distribution myself. Correcting that would mean moving the engine too far.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/7/24 at 12:05 PM |
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Absolutely perfect for a LHD car though!
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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