ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 03:50 PM |
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03 R1 only runs in neutral
Any ideas what would cause my 03 R1 to stall / not start when put into gear, but if I earth the neutral switch it fires up in gear OK?
Ive checked that both the sidestand switch and the clutch switch wires are spliced together to make connection, but when you earth the neutral feed
with the iginition on, you can hear the circuit cut off relay clicking so its switching something over causing the engine to stop. I dont think its
affecting fuelling as the fuel pump still runs initially when turning the ignition on in gear, so assume its cutting the spark. Any ideas would be
most welcome as I have my MOT to get it back on the road tomorrow! Do you think its OK to just fool it into thinking its in neutral and run it like
that, or might it affect the fuel map used etc?
cheers
Chris
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big_wasa
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 04:28 PM |
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side stand switch ?
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 05:14 PM |
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Nope, checked that, the clutch switch and the tip over switch, all seem to be connected up to fool it into thinking its OK to run.
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beefy
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 06:12 PM |
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Are the switchs in the closed position, and does the clutch switch need to be in different posision to side stand ones??
[Edited on 6/7/05 by beefy]
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shortie
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 06:19 PM |
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Chris,
Someone told me about this exact problem on a blade and it turned out to be the clutch diode.
He had followed the diagram explaining now to disable it, I believe it basically consisted of earthing everything, clutch, side and neutral.
He actually used my wiring diagram and although he thought he had earthed all the bits as per the diagram it still stalled as soon as it was put in
gear.
I can't remember the exact details but it would definitely be worth starting with the clutch switch as it stands to reason that if this is not
overided then immediatly the clutch is lifted then it would stall which sounds exactly the problem you have.
I know you are a bit of an expert with the old bike engines and you will get it sorted but I reckon it's a good starting point. What about
putting it back in the system and seeing what happens and taking it from there.
Rich.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 06:53 PM |
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Hi chaps
Im just going to earth it for now, as Paul Rogers mentioned on the Yahoo BEC list, the cut off relay isnt used on the simplified diagram and this wire
is just sent to earth so thats what Ill do for now. Ive used all the bike sensors bar the tilt sensor (replaced with 470 ohm resistor), and obviously
the clutch/sidestand switches. Regarding those switches, Ive tried them in both the open and closed positions but it either has no effect, or makes it
not start even in neutral (as you'd expect) so Im not sure. With the MOT looming (no pun intended  ) I havent really got time to trace every
wire back so will go with the manual earthing for now then look into it over the weekend.
cheers
Chris
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tks
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 06:53 PM |
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mhhh
don't mess with that....
Chriss,
send me the diagram from hayness and i tell you what to do!
if you haven't its difficult..
but to start bike engine in gear..
you need clutch or sidestandswitch in UP position.. else when releasing gear it would stall..
ok here they come:
- sidestand switch
- bank angle sensor
- clutch
- kill switch
on an injection engine spark and injectors are both cuttout..
on my loom Kill switch towards relais, bike angle after it..
Then the fuelpump relais is managed by MCU...
on my Loom when in neutral start relais negative goes throu N switch..(also bulb power)
Then when not in neutral, the other side of the diode is used then the clutch switch will be used together with the sidestand switch
the engine starts fireing and injecting when he measures rpm....
(YES the system is not prepared for an rolling blockage)
Soow, my advice is go to the start relais
from their it should go to the diode....
from their it will split up one to neutral switch and the other to the side stand/clutch combi...
The MCU wire is wired to the sidestand switch if i good remember....
the starter power need to go trough the clutchswitch to ground..
(or hook it up to ground??)
altough i would respect the complete driveing idea...
(YES mount an clutch switch) on your clutch pedal)
the sidestand can be wired hard altough it can effect emmision tests..(who knows==> honda engineeers)
Sow that's it
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 07:01 PM |
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Cheers
Chris - the light blue wire is (was) going to its original location in the relay, and the light blue/white wire was feeding into my digidash to
trigger the neutral light (rather than going to the bike clocks to do the same). Im wondering whether maybe the Digidash is doing something odd with
this blue/white wire which is affecting the rest of the relay?
Now Ive just got the neutral sensor on the engine going straight to the Digidash, and the light blue wire coming from the relay which would normally
be connected to the neutral switch going straight to earth, which seems to work fine.
Chris
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shortie
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 08:14 PM |
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Friend of mine had to use a diode in his neutral sensor wire as the digidash was causing an issue as he had nuetral going to the digidash and to his
dashboard warning light module (bright 6)
Rich
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colibriman
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 08:38 PM |
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Chris,
have you got the thermostat sensor plugged in....If you do away with it that causes a problem....
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 09:46 PM |
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Yep, the water temp sensor in the thermostat housing is plugged in, it reads the correct temperature on the bike clocks Ive got so I assume its wired
up correctly.
cheers
Chris
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 06:54 PM |
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A mad mad dash this afternoon to get ready for a 4pm MOT (I was still bolting the transmission tunnel cover on at 3:45pm and the MOT station is 20
minutes away!), but despite the rush she passed so hopefully tomorrow the insurance will come and I'll be able to get tax and be back on the
road!
The engine ran really well, all pressures and temps are good, and first impressions of the R1 are that its very torquey compared to the blade,
although I didnt really get chance to open it up properly as I was taking it easy on the way there just in case Id forgotten to do up a bolt
somewhere, and on the way home it p1ssed down! 
Anyway, assuming the insurance comes through tomorrow, I'll be at the Thorney Island 1/4 mile drag run at the army base on Sunday if anyone
fancies a day out, basically turn up on the day and pay ~£20 to run on the 1/4 mile as many times as you like (there's usually a fair queue
though so around 1 run per hour) and get entry to the show too (mainly custom cars)
Chris
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colibriman
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 08:02 PM |
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So why wouldn't it run in gear...?
handbrake on ?
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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tks
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 09:32 PM |
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Chirsss
Welcome in the world of injection precision!
carbs are for Full throttle or for none..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 09:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by colibriman
So why wouldn't it run in gear...?
handbrake on ?
LOL, I dont know yet to be honest, Ive just bypassed it so the cut off relay thinks its in neutral all the time, Ive been told by a couple of
knowledgeable sources (including one chap on the DSR forum who works for Yamaha and uses R1 engines in his racers) that it doesnt tell the ECU its in
neutral so doesnt affect the map or anything.
I imagine its probably the sidestand or clutch switch connection as they sem to be the only ones that would have this effect but I did check these and
they appeared to be spliced correctly.
Chris
BTW cheers TKS 
Chris
[Edited on 7/7/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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