zzrpowerd-locost
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 posted on 6/12/05 at 12:55 PM |
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Tiger transfer box
Does anybody know who makes, or have any details of the transfer box that Tiger use in the Z100 twin bike engine offering
????? 
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uklee70
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 01:01 PM |
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Hi
speak to mark at mnr he knows who makes z cars transfer box they make them for grass track cars to so if there is any grassers on here they may know
also
Lee
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 08:07 PM |
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linky
joel and i talked about it in this post above i used to have pictures of the assembly of the transfer box but the links are dead now, basically it
looked really simple cant remember if it was the tiger one or not though. iirc it was 2.5K which i though was steep considering what it was
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 10:26 PM |
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I can tell you who makes most of the machined parts for Chris Allanson at Z Cars, including the transfer boxes etc, and that is Geoff Berrisford at GB
Engineering in Nantwich.
Yup, the same chap that I keep banging on about who makes in lightweight indestructible driveshafts to any length for £70 a pop.
Both big autograss racers past and present, Mr Berrisford has been doing quite well of late. just wish I had seen his scat V4 powered special
out.......or rather heard it!
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 02:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
I can tell you who makes most of the machined parts for Chris Allanson at Z Cars, including the transfer boxes etc, and that is Geoff Berrisford at GB
Engineering in Nantwich.
Yup, the same chap that I keep banging on about who makes in lightweight indestructible driveshafts to any length for £70 a pop.
Both big autograss racers past and present, Mr Berrisford has been doing quite well of late. just wish I had seen his scat V4 powered special
out.......or rather heard it!
Website??
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 02:05 PM |
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what sort of design do i need for a transfer box?
I guess i cant just join two engines directly without some sort of torque bias or clutch arrangement
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 12:58 AM |
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Unfortunately GB Engineering don;t have a website. They are far too busy with normal work to need to tout any more it would seem.
If you go to the autosport show they will have a stand in the autograss area within the oval motorsport area, and Geoff will no doubt be there as
always!
Re. the transfer box, normally the bike gearboxes are kept as std and the drive linked after these, so the bike clutches are used. just have to make
sure you dont select different gears on each box!!!!!
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 01:14 AM |
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was that the half a nascar engine ?
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 10:40 AM |
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Yes, basically!
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 11:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Unfortunately GB Engineering don;t have a website. They are far too busy with normal work to need to tout any more it would seem.
If you go to the autosport show they will have a stand in the autograss area within the oval motorsport area, and Geoff will no doubt be there as
always!
Re. the transfer box, normally the bike gearboxes are kept as std and the drive linked after these, so the bike clutches are used. just have to make
sure you dont select different gears on each box!!!!!
So your saying i can just drive a common shaft directly of both engines?
Output speed of both engines would need to be matched i guess
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 11:56 AM |
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You really need to get to an autograss race meeting and have a look at some of the twin bike engined cars there.
The complication is the differential.
Assuming no diff is used for a moment, the setup basically puts both engines side by side, with chain drives from both bike gearbox sprockets onto a
pair of sprockets on a common axle mounted on 2 bearings fixed to the chassis. On each end of this axle there is a flange which suits the sierra 6
bolt Lobro type cv joints, then you just get shafts made up to suit these joints and the correct length to hook up with std sierra hubs, outer stubs
etc etc.
If you need a diff, then things get a little more complex. You can either buy an off-the shelf solution from GB engineering, which is pricey, or you
keep the common axle arrangement, but then put a further chain drive in from a 3rd sprocket in the middle of the common "axle" which
drives a second axle, which consists of a diff carrier mounted in 2 more bearings and with a sprocket where the crownwheel was, and then fit output
flanges to this diff to drive the shafts. bit more involved but not expensive to do.
PS no need to worry about speed matching etc. Yes, the throttles need to be open a similar amount or one engines power will be wasted spinning the
other, but as long as both gearboxes are in the same gear, then both engines are effectively locked together as one.
[Edited on 8/12/05 by NS Dev]
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 12:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
You really need to get to an autograss race meeting and have a look at some of the twin bike engined cars there.
The complication is the differential.
Assuming no diff is used for a moment, the setup basically puts both engines side by side, with chain drives from both bike gearbox sprockets onto a
pair of sprockets on a common axle mounted on 2 bearings fixed to the chassis. On each end of this axle there is a flange which suits the sierra 6
bolt Lobro type cv joints, then you just get shafts made up to suit these joints and the correct length to hook up with std sierra hubs, outer stubs
etc etc.
If you need a diff, then things get a little more complex. You can either buy an off-the shelf solution from GB engineering, which is pricey, or you
keep the common axle arrangement, but then put a further chain drive in from a 3rd sprocket in the middle of the common "axle" which
drives a second axle, which consists of a diff carrier mounted in 2 more bearings and with a sprocket where the crownwheel was, and then fit output
flanges to this diff to drive the shafts. bit more involved but not expensive to do.
PS no need to worry about speed matching etc. Yes, the throttles need to be open a similar amount or one engines power will be wasted spinning the
other, but as long as both gearboxes are in the same gear, then both engines are effectively locked together as one.
[Edited on 8/12/05 by NS Dev]
I am talking about putting two engines in a locost mounted longitudinally with the outputs pointing at the rear of the car. Just as tiger z100
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 12:23 PM |
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ahhhhhh!!!
Altogether different challenge..........
As I said a lot of ppsts back.......zero grip!!!
Expensive too as you won't be knocking the transfer box out in the garage! I have built a couple of transfer boxes from scratch for offroaders,
using steel box section for the casings and machined flanges for the bearing mountings and range rover borg warner silent chain and sprockets for the
drive.......but I would not use them on something going fast on the road!!!
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froggy
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 12:34 PM |
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just chucking my 2p in. lets say you use two 600cc engines, real world 180bhp then they both drive a transfer box losing x horsepower( someone will
fill the gaps here) then this transfer box will run into a 7" diff (x horsepower loss) lest say you lose 25% through this arrangement ,giving
you 130ish at the wheels , i should think a stock busa will do that
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iank
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 01:13 PM |
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The next issue of PPC (out at the end of Dec) claims to have an article about 3 twin engine cars. One of which (if the picture is to be believed) is
the tiger. I'd be prepared to bet a small amount one of the other two is a Z-cars mini, with maybe the twin bike ultima (they have a separate
article about ultimas as well) as the third.
Hopefully there will be some technical details for those that are thinking about going this route.
Why not ask a question on the PPC forum since their editors read that?
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JoelP
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 01:15 PM |
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plus you still have 160kgs of engines on board. I have two zx9 engines on a frame that i was contemplating making a twin bec from, i concluded its
basically a show off idea unless you want to link two busa turbos. Ie as chap above says, you may as well use a reliable normal set up like a busa, or
turbo it, rather than wee around with 2 sprockets, 3 props and 3 gearboxes etc. Only when you really have run out of single engine ideas should twins
be considered. Unless you are an engineer and want to showcase your skills etc.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 06:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelPUnless you are an engineer and want to showcase your skills etc.
Well erm i might be!
More of an electrical engineer actually but can do mechanical aswell!
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 07:09 PM |
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i plan to showcase my skills when i get some
I am a mech eng though
[Edited on 8/12/05 by liam.mccaffrey]
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 07:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
i plan to showcase my skills when i get some
I am a mech eng though
[Edited on 8/12/05 by liam.mccaffrey]
lol
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/12/05 at 08:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
just chucking my 2p in. lets say you use two 600cc engines, real world 180bhp then they both drive a transfer box losing x horsepower( someone will
fill the gaps here) then this transfer box will run into a 7" diff (x horsepower loss) lest say you lose 25% through this arrangement ,giving
you 130ish at the wheels , i should think a stock busa will do that
Simple answer from another level.....................top class 10 autograss cars weigh 500kg or less, and have TWO 1600cc big bore big stroke Hayabusa
engines generating over 245hp EACH!!!!
they are.....needless to say....fcuking fast, as in 0-60 i under 3.5 secs.......on mud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 8/12/05 by NS Dev]
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