Jim Young
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 posted on 1/1/06 at 10:27 PM |
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MK Indy Engine Options??
Hi All,
Ok, for the last couple of years I've been interested in building a seven style kit car and finally (2006) I'm hoping to start it this
year.
I've shortlisted the MK Indy as my kit of choice and originally I was looking at Zetec power.
Two other options I'd be keen to hear if anyone has tried are the 2litre duratec and the Audi/VW 1.8T. I'm sure plenty of people have
fitted the duratec, could anyone enlighten me as to difficulties / considerations to take should I go down this route? Has anyone tried mating the VW
engine to a RWD box? (if so, what adapter plate/box combo was used?)
Thanks in advance,
Jim
PS Looks like a really useful forum now I've discovered it. Will have to tune in whenever the daughter can be prized off the PC! 
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 1/1/06 at 11:14 PM |
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Welcome to planet locost
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Hellfire
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| posted on 1/1/06 at 11:15 PM |
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Welcome to the Madhouse Jim. You're in the right place for getting some answers to your questions......... just not from me 
But before you jump in with both feet, have you considered using bike power........
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donut
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 12:30 AM |
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WELCOME & HAPPY NEW YEAR!! It's gonna be a cracker!
Ok engine choices. We have:
1,Xflow - Old engineering but still upto the job. 150BHP relatively easy, parts still available and easy engine to tune.
2, Pinto - Heavy but again a simple engine. 150bhp cheaply acheivable and 200bhp possible if a bit of money spent. Many people hate this engine but
don't dismiss it as you can get good power cheaply and it's what the Indy was designed for.
3, Cosworth YB - Same fitment as pinto (same block) loads of power especially if you go Turbo (Talk to hicost on this forum!) Can be very
expensive!!!!!
4, Zetec - Couple of different engine choices with easy std power (go for the 2 litre-pre 95) but can be expensive to get working in a rear wheel
drive car. Most popular Ford choice at the mo.
5, Duratec - Better engine that Zetec and more tunable. Don't think Std Ford gearbox's fit though. Emissions will need to be right for SVA
which could be a prob.
6, Toyota 4age 1.6 16v - Superb revvy engine with 165 easily acheivable. Raw Engineering do adaptor plates and all you need to get it working in your
car.
7, 2 Litre Toyota 4age. even better than above. From what i have read it's probably the best engine for a 7.
8, Nissan 200sx 1.8 turbo - Bit of a pain to fit but worth it so i have been told. 200+ bhp std i think with another 80 odd when chipped. Very smooth
engine in an Indy.
Ford Essex 3.0 V6 - Very heavy, loads of torque, nice noise.
Ford 2.8 cologne V6 Lighter than the Essex but less torque, more BHp. Still very heavy.
Rover 3.5 V8. As heavy as a Pinto, std engines from 90bhp at the wheels depending on which one you get. 135bhp most abundant. Tune them till your eyes
bleed!!!!! Fantastic noise. Will fit without cutting the bonnet. Steering column needs modding and a clutch pedal with master cylinder needs fitting
for hydraulic clutch. Suposed to wheelspin at low revs...allot due to large amounts of torque.
Hope this helps. I have been looking into an engine change / rebuild when my car is on the road. Fave at the mo is Rover V8 and Toyota MR2 2 litre
engine or 1.6 4age.
All this may be rubbish but it's a rough guide from the info i have read about.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 03:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by donut
7, 2 Litre Toyota 4age. even better than above. From what i have read it's probably the best engine for a 7.
Tell me more about this mythical beast, I've not heard of it before?
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 03:28 AM |
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Perhaps Andy means the 3SGE? Don't think anyone has used one in this country though. I was planning on swapping my pinto for a 3SGE once through
SVA, but as building bellhousings isn't my strong point, I've scrapped that idea!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 03:41 AM |
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Well, the 3SGE isn't a bad engine, and IIRC mates up to the old Corrola box. It is an iron block though, so not particularly light, and
it's not cheap to tune should you want more power.
The 3SGTE is a different matter, though the corrola box probably wouldn't last 2 seconds.
As modern car engines go (and expense not an issue), I'd say the ultimate was the Honda K20, as fitted to the S2000.
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 03:46 AM |
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A little heavier than the pinto, but a tad more power available. But hey, if I had all the answers, I'd have my car SVA'd and on the
road!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 10:47 AM |
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Then there are all the bike engines to choose from..........
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donut
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 10:53 AM |
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Oh shut up Hellfire we know you like bike engines!!!
quote:
Perhaps Andy means the 3SGE?
Dunno what it's called but i meant the 2 litre version of the 4age, the one they put in the Mk2 MR2.
And yes sorry i forgot to say about the S2000 engine  how could i forget that one!!
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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TimC
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 10:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
9, Honda S2000 2litre 16v - 237bhp as standard pain in the arse to fit, Gobble's money like a dutch hooker, not seen it run yet so we
don't know if it works, hardly any parts to help fit it into a seven available off the shelf, wont fit in most sevens due to the height, only
just fits an indy with a bonnet bulge and a 1 3/4 " hanging below the chassis rail, got to be dry sumped, aftermarket ecu probably needed, other
than that not too disimilar from a pinto to do 
Chris
PMSL
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Tim 45
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 12:02 PM |
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I think there are Indy's on this forum with the engines Donut listed, fitted. There are many topics on here discussing pros and cons of certain
engines, most DOHC and SOHC will fit an indy (maybe with modification to bonnet) so the choice is pretty much unlimited!!
Welcome to the forum
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Genesis
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 12:24 PM |
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The 2 Litre 4AGE - have a word with Dean C - he has a peacher of one tuned to almost 250bhp IIRC!
[Edited on 2/1/06 by Genesis]
Going fishin'
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Genesis
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 12:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TimC
quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
9, Honda S2000 2litre 16v - 237bhp as standard pain in the arse to fit, Gobble's money like a dutch hooker, not seen it run yet so we
don't know if it works, hardly any parts to help fit it into a seven available off the shelf, wont fit in most sevens due to the height, only
just fits an indy with a bonnet bulge and a 1 3/4 " hanging below the chassis rail, got to be dry sumped, aftermarket ecu probably needed, other
than that not too disimilar from a pinto to do
Chris
PMSL
Knowing Chris 1 gear forward and (is it?) 6 backwards!!!
ROFLMFAO!!!!!
[Edited on 2/1/06 by Genesis]
Going fishin'
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CairB
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 01:25 PM |
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A 2.0 or 2.3 Duratec fits in with readily available bell housings to fit mate to type 9 gearbox. The standard type 9 is a bit underated for the torque
that this engine is capable and you would be looking at the likes of a Quaife hd / BGH. These engines are capable of around 200 bhp out of the crate
with individual throttle bodies and have an upgrade route to around 300 bhp Normally Aspirated.
One of the big gains with this engine is the lack of weight, its around 90kg. How heavy is the Vauxhall?
The choice is yours but before deciding I would definately recommend that you do a realistic bottom assesment of the costs.
The main choice of bike or car engine depends on what characteristics you want from the finished car. There are plenty of posts on this site that give
some good insites from people that have experience with both, once you get past the 'bike engine is best' viewpoints. Do a search of some
of the recent posts from Hicost and Jasper.
Another point worth considering is that currently the emmission requirements are a lot stricter if you build with a newish engine.
Cheers,
Colin
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donut
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 04:07 PM |
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Colin, How much do you recon it has cost you to fit the Duratec?
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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chriscook
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 05:14 PM |
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Don't forget the 2L Vauxhall 16v
180bhp std engine on carbs wth lots more available.
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CairB
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 05:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by donut
Colin, How much do you recon it has cost you to fit the Duratec?
About £3.7k for:
New
2.3 engine
Lightweight flywheel
AP HD clutch
Inlet manifold
Belt drive pulley assembly
Ally Bell housing to type 9
Concentric clutch actuator
Megasquirt
Wideband O2 sensor and controller
Pipercross air filter
Coolant hoses
Starter motor
Raceline oil filter housing
Hydraulic master cylinder, hoses & fittings
High flow injectors
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
S/H
Quaife Heavy Duty close ratio Type 9 gearbox
Throttle bodies
Air horns
EDIS & coil pack
2.0l cam cover
2.0 rear coolant housing
2.0l cams and pistons (not fitted yet)
Alternator
Home Made / Modified
Lowline Wet sump
Exhaust headers (modified Mondeo)
Alternator bracket
Engine mounts
Engine wiring loom
EGR valve coolant blanking plate
Throttle linkage
Fuel rail
Andy, do not let any of this take your focus off getting your car through SVA and on the road!
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zetec
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 07:47 PM |
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Ouch! Nice engine but a lot of £££...getting into Busa money or very sorted zetec.
The good news with the zetec is that the lump is £250 for a useable 2ltr that should not need any new parts. The move to bike throttle bodies is good
news. For ease on the ECU front I would go for Emerald still as it does everything and that means sparks, injection, fuel pump, cooling fan, rev
counter output, shift light, soft/hard rev limiter, idle speed control, diagnostics and dead easy to use.
Get a shortened sump fitted and bolt it in...if you blow it up which is unlikely 4hrs with the spanner and another one fitted straight from the
breakers.
Good budget option is the Pinto.
" I only registered to look at the pictures, now I'm stuck with this username for the rest of my life!"
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Jim Young
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 09:40 PM |
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Thanks to everyone for the replies and warm welcome.
Still keen on the Duratec and know I'll have to fit a cat etc.
Cairb, would be interested to know where you sourced your bits from and what specific difficulties you came across (e.g. did you fabricate engine
mounts yourself, did the bonnet require a cut 'n' shut etc!).
I'm not too bothered about the bike engined options (sorry Hellfire, shall I put my flame-proof suit on?!). I'd disregarded the cossie
block too but turbo power is ever so appealing
(in terms of road cars I prefer a more ever spread of power and torque than revving the nuts off).
Cheers
Jim
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Jim Young
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 09:45 PM |
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PS What on earth is Megasquirt?
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donut
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 09:45 PM |
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I'm getting more and more interested in the 4age to be honest. Not sure how it compares price wise (and weight wise) with a zetec to get them
going.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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donut
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 09:52 PM |
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Megasqirt is the ecu that tells the spark plugs when to spark.
Or if you go to Anne Summers you get something entirely different!!
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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CairB
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 10:15 PM |
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Jim,
A Megasquirt is a low cost self build engine management system that controls fuel and ignition. See http://MSEFI.com
I fitted mine under the bonnet with just a cutout for the air filter to grab some of that cold dense air.
Have a look in Cairb - photos - Duratec (at the top).
The components were sourced from:
Scholar
Shawspeed
BPJ Services
Raceline
Merlin Mortorsport
+ others
Are you aware of http://www.duratecperformance.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php ?
Send a U2U with email if you want to talk further details.
Yes, I fabricated the engine mounts.
Cheers,
Colin
[Edited on 2/1/06 by CairB]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/1/06 at 12:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Young
.........I'm not too bothered about the bike engined options (sorry Hellfire, shall I put my flame-proof suit on?!).
No need for the flame-proof suit. The choice is ultimately yours but you're obviously looking for something quite powerful. All I'm
suggesting is that you get a ride in a BEC before writing them off. If you already have tried a BEC and still want a car engine, then please accept my
apologies for trying to convert you.
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