EViS
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 09:24 PM |
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Engine Painting, Rebuilding, & Ford Engine Differences
Which parts of an engine CAN be painted, and which parts cannot be? Do bear in mind that I currently know very little about engines and their parts
 . Or is painting any part of an engine pointless and in the long term will make it look worse as parts begin to flake? Maybe a very high polish is a
better idea?
Also, with the use of a Haynes manual to disassemble an engine for cleaning/restoration, how will a first time builder like myself be able to tell
what has to be replaced, bearings, etc?
[Edited on 20/3/06 by EViS]
[Edited on 20/3/06 by EViS]
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nick205
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 09:59 PM |
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Depends what engine you're using. If it's alloy then no need to paint, if it's cast iron then pain the outside surfaces of the
block and cylinder head using a dedicated engine enamel (halfords etc). In general, avoid painting machined faces as they tend to mate with other
faces and the thickness of the paint may prevent proper location and/or sealing of parts.
Armed with your Haynes manual, you shouldn't have too much trouble dismantling and rebuilding. Lots of photos posted on here will help you
identify parts that need replacing etc.
HTH and go for it.
Nick
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AlexS
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 10:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by EViS
Do bear in mind that I currently know very little about engines and their parts .
I am in same situation, just stripping down my first engine - 1600 xflow - so im sure we'll be asking all the same questions! 
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EViS
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 10:15 PM |
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I'll be starting mine in July (hopefully i'll have all the funds by then ).
How much is usually spent on a xflow 1.6 rebuild?
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Chazzy
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 10:22 PM |
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clean everything, then reassemble and clean again then paint.
don't get paint in open bolt holes.
the haynes manual will tell you how to tell for wear.
what engine?
will it be cheaper to DIY or buy a recon unit. think time and worse case scenario, crank regrind, over size pistons etc etc
Chas
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EViS
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 10:46 PM |
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Not really sure which engine yet as do not know enough about their differences and pricing... although most probably one of the fords - pinto, xflow
or zetec...
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SALAD
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 10:57 PM |
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I started out knowing very little, using my trusty haynes manual I dismantled and broke a few bits on my first pinto, but I have now done my second
and I'm surprised how much quicker I was at dismantling etc (didnt break anything this time!) On to painting them now.
Just take it one step at a time, labeling things as you take them off. It gets easier the more you do.
Have fun, but have something close by to smash up in order to take your stress out on when things aren't as simple as one would like or after
breaking things! 
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davidwag
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 11:01 PM |
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Hi,
How much do you want to spend rebuilding a crossflow.
Just been quoted £8000 to build a 1300 crossflow (160 bhp) for hillclimbing!!
David
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EViS
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 11:08 PM |
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Rebuilding costs? Absolutely nothing if possible. Maybe a few quid here and there to change any relevant washers/bearings/etc.
My total budget for a full 7 build incl. donor car and all parts is £4k.
What are the differences between the pinto, crossflow, and zetec?
Something like this zetec seems appealing,
also being from a rather newish car there shouldn't be much to replace/refurbish, correct?
However, am i still able to use all transmission, gears, sterring collumns etc. from a sierra (which could be using a pinto for example)?
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jambo
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| posted on 20/3/06 at 11:38 PM |
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the pinto and x flow are both old but strong engines and are very tuneable if you dont mind the expence of tuning and all that extra gas.
the more modern way in mho is to go for a 1.8 or 2.0 zetec,these are very popular now in sevens and look far better painted up and in the car.
also dont feel obliged to overhall the engine 90% of engines puled from the scrappies have loads of miles in them and look just as good in the car.
after you are up and runing you will deffinatelly pick up another engine cheap which you can work on then its a simple swop and the cars back on the
road
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02GF74
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 10:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by EViS
Which parts of an engine CAN be painted, and which parts cannot be? Do bear in mind that I currently know very little about engines and their parts
. Or is painting any part of an engine pointless and in the long term will make it look worse as parts begin to flake? Maybe a very high polish is a
better idea?
not sure if it has been said but you paint only the outside. (you may laugh but go to rpi to see a v8 painted inside )
As the block/cylinderhead is water cooled, it should never get much more above 110 C. You can buy engine paint but I have not had success with that
in the past; it bubbled up - but if you throroughly clean the outside, you should not have problems; hamerite is fine.
The exhaust manfold gets hotter to special high temperature paint is needed.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 10:30 AM |
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If you are on a serious budget id strongly recommend taking your time and finding an engine that doesnt need a rebuild. It is possible to get one
cheap if you are patient. Personally id rather put the engine rebiuld budget into new brakes.
With mine i knew the bottom end was solid but the camshaft was shot. I rebuilt the head, fitted bigger cam and ported it for around £140. If the
bottom end fails ill either get another for £50 or bite the bullet and get my block machined out to 2.1 and assemble it myself.
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 12:49 PM |
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This is exactly what I'm doing with my Pinto. Drove my 2.0i Sierra for 50 mile or so, started the engine from both cold and warm, etc. to get a
feel for how it ran (full history file and 100,000 miles on odometer also gives an indication). Seemed perfectly fine with no smoke but lacking in
power compared to my A4 Tdi.
Then took it out of the car 2-weeks ago and began stripping it down. Found cam to be worn so bought a Kent FR34K which comes with a head gasket set,
then matched exhaust ports to manifold.
Tonight I'm dropping it off at an engine builders to get it cleaned in an acid bath (not happy with results of paraffin and bottle cleaners),
have the cam bearings replaced (stubbornly refuse to come out) and while it's there, I might as well get them to reassembe the new cam kit.
Total cost of head rebuild:
Cam Kit £203 (Larkspeed)
Bearings £19 (Burton)
Headstuds £32 (Burton)
Cam belt £8.50 (Burton)
Estimated labour for cleaning and re-assembly £150
Total head cost £412.50 with a probable bhp gain of 25 or so = £16.50/bhp
I'm looking at the block at the moment and it is pristine, even the bearings are ok. I have to decide whether to leave it as is and spend
nothing, or strip it, get it in an acid bath, change the bearings (£50 Burton) and fit a high pressure oil pump (£44 Burton) so it'll be good
for years - although this makes most sense.
Definately not boring out as I would rather see how I take to the Pinto first and plan on improving it (2.1 on throttle bodies) or replacing it
(Duratec) at a later date.
This said, I could have just stuck the Sierra engine straight in and run it with no trouble or cost for years!
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wicket
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 12:51 PM |
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If its a Pinto or X-flow rebuild then I would recommend Peter & John Wallage's book Rebuilding and Tuning Ford X-Flow and Pinto.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 01:16 PM |
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I was talking with someone about changing camshaft bearings the other day. Apparently once fitted they may need inline boring so they are all
perfectly aligned. may or may not be neccessary on a pinto...someone will no doubt know. I have a feeling it may be the case, and that is why it says
in the sierra haynes manual camshaft bearings cannot be changed at home.
David
[Edited on 21/3/06 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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NS Dev
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 03:01 PM |
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he says somewhat ashamedly..............never changed em on a pinto yet!!!
Had some with very horrid looking centre bearing but the engine was needed in the rally car so it went back with shiny new cam and jiggered bearing,
checked the cam several events later and all was well!!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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EViS
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 04:53 PM |
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So rebuilding an old engine such as a Pinto or Crossflow is most likely going to be a fairly expensive procedure from what i've understood...
What is the normal going rate of a zetec 1.6? I can't really go above 1.6 due to insurance reasons  .
And should i still take a zetec to pieces, clean it and put it back together again? Is it likely that a 5 year old zetec will need anything
replaced?
As i want to spend minimal on the engine, i will not be tuning it for now, just replacing any parts that simply have to be replaced due to wear...
[Edited on 21/3/06 by EViS]
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 07:20 PM |
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I find that it's a case of where do you stop, and the simple answer is, how much can you spend.
Pinto engines are practically free and Zetecs don't cost much. You could just use one until it let go on you and swap it for another.
As soon as you open up an engine it is a different matter as you will need a set of head bolts (say £35) and a full gasket set (say £30) straight
away. I can guarentee that you will find fault with something, then you start to think "I'd better get that changed, and if I'm
changing that I'd better do that too, and if I'm doing that, I really should do that too".
In the end, you will have an engine that will last another 100,000 miles (way more that you will do in a locost) and have cost you £500 to rebuild.
If I were in your position, I'd get a sound engine, do nothing with it and buy a second, bigger engine to strip down and rebuild properly over
time, ready for slotting in when you (and your insurance company) are ready.
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EViS
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 07:32 PM |
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Will ALL the transmission and bits from say a 1993 sierra work fine with a zetec from a 2000-reg vehicle?
Will i still be able to use a Type 9 on a zetec?
Also, why would i immediately need new head bolts and a full gasket set after opening the engine up?
[Edited on 21/3/06 by EViS]
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ProjectX
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 08:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by EViS
Will ALL the transmission and bits from say a 1993 sierra work fine with a zetec from a 2000-reg vehicle?
Will i still be able to use a Type 9 on a zetec?
Also, why would i immediately need new head bolts and a full gasket set after opening the engine up?
[Edited on 21/3/06 by EViS]
The type 9 or MT75 Gearbox will fit the zetec with little problem.
I would advise though a 1.8 or 2.0 zetec as the it is even easier still. With a 1.8 you can keep the flywheel etc. 2.0 has a much heavier flywheel and
is better suited to the 1.8.
As for bolt etc:
The headbolts are stretch bolts and as such need to be torqued up the turned through a further amount. you cannot reuse them safely. NOT Changing the
gasket is like changing your shoes without changing your smelly socks!
You always chnge the clutch (unless you know it's only done 100 miles because you didn't change the gaskets!!!)
I'm using a 1.8 zetec (1993 Mondeo) with MT75 Box from Sierra and no probs to date with build.
Bear in mind post 1995 engines have much more stringent SVA tests in regard to emissions (Must have cat converter and closed loop emissions etc)
Hope this helps
J
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EViS
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 09:12 PM |
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I really do think a 1.8 will be out of my league for insurance purposes (a 1.6 is pushing it). What problems will i have with fitting a type 9/mt75 to
a 1.6 zetec then? Will i have to get a new fly wheel or something?
[Edited on 21/3/06 by EViS]
[Edited on 21/3/06 by EViS]
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Chazzy
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 10:08 PM |
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are you sure on the insurance? my policy (footman james) is either below 2L or above. No distinction between 1.3 x-flow, 1.6 toyota or 2l pinto.
A bigger engine will "probabaly" have led a less strsssful life. eg zetec from mondeo rather than escort.
chas
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ProjectX
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 10:14 PM |
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Yes Chas is right!
I dont think you will find any probs with insurance between 1.6 an 1.8 might be 30-50 quid more.
Save money on the build and spend it on the insurance!
J
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AlexS
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 11:03 PM |
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Yep im 21 and a 1.6 xflow costs me 300odd quid third party only, 5k miles a year. Dont think youll have too many problems with insurance. The problem
I had was it not being my name on the log book for my normal day to day car so 95% of em turned me down straight away! 
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Fatgadget
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 02:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by davidwag
Hi,
How much do you want to spend rebuilding a crossflow.
Just been quoted £8000 to build a 1300 crossflow (160 bhp) for hillclimbing!!
David
What is the spec for a 1300 Xflow that gives out 160 brake?
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