scuzzer23
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 09:19 PM |
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Middy conversions
Most of the builders on this forum seem to be scratch builders, but has anyone put serious thought into throwing an engine where the manufacturer
never intended? Here are a couple of examples:
94 Integra GSR mid-engine RWD H22A4
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=981613
300ZX Turbo in back of CRX
http://www.japaneseauto.com/87civicproject.html
RWD boosted H22 in a del sol
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=741821
Rear-engine Del Sol drag car
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Show/2140/Temp/rearengine.html
My thoughts are that you could get a Middy CRX below 2000 lbs. even after throwing in a cage (think track car not street car). And with a junkyard
Honda B20 block/B16 head you could make well over 200 WHP using a smallish turbo. It wouldn't be too hard to replicate the strut suspension.
Cost would be less than $2500. Whaddo ya thinks?
I know what you're thinking: just start with a damn fiero and put a honda motor in it. Good Idea but the fiero GT has a curb weight of 2790 lbs.
Not exactly my cup of tea. Now the early 90's Geo Metro comes in at 1620 lbs. Maybe a good starting point for a lightweight sports car.
Thoughts?
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rohar
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 10:36 PM |
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Um, yeah, many have.
2000lbs seems a bit portly to me, there are definately better options. Not neccessarly the best, but definately among them:
http://www.scirocco.org/photos/53/mk1reareng001.jpg
http://www.scirocco.org/photos/53/mk1reareng002.jpg
1980 scirocco w/ a 16v engine, not huge horse power, but there's any number of tuning options up to 350+hp on the standard VW i4 platform. Boss
Tuning in Portland Oregon did this one for less than 1500lbs wet.
Much the same has been done transverse mount w/ 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen golfs by dubsport in GB. I'm guessing if a person REALY tried, a 1st gen
golf could come down to 1350 to 1400 lbs and still be street safe.
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kb58
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 11:55 PM |
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Yes, that's why we're here.
Putting an engine in the back of a car doesn't change the weight (and in fact increases it due to the additional frame supports.) I really
doubt you can get a CRX below 2000lbs, especially one with a cage. It isn't until you get down to <1500lbs that you really have something.
For all that work of moving the engine, what do you end up with? It won't go much faster so what's was the point? As the links
you've supplied point out, it's alread been done, so you don't get much street cred...
Do more research; it's all about weight.
[Edited on 8/29/06 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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scuzzer23
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 02:41 AM |
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a 1500 lbs scirocco? sounds light to me. The stock weight is listed as 2287 lbs. KB58 why don't you think a CRX can go below 2000? A stock HF
CRX is 1967 lbs curb so all you half to do is take out as much weight as you put in.
If we're just looking at the weight of the chassis between the CRX and the Scirocco they may be pretty close to the same.
I think that the lightest chassis I can think of would be the early geo metro/suzuki swift or the 1970's civics. And of course the old
Mini's although I don't know their stock curb weight maybe someone could chime in? I'm sure there is some others that I'm
forgetting.
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iank
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 09:03 AM |
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Old classic mini's come in around 600kg as standard. The last of the line had increased to 750kg.
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=99198&Mini
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kb58
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 01:46 PM |
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A serious roll-cage, engine mounts, fuel tank mounts, turbo, bigger heavier wheels and tires - that's why - adding around 250lbs. Since
it's 2287lbs stock, now it's 2537lbs. So 537lbs has to come from somewhere.
With your $2500 target, there's no budget for lightweight parts; all you can do is start removing parts. After the doors, fenders, bumpers, and
glass are removed you end up with a... demolition-derby car...
And about the Geo Metro, that's essentially been done, search for "Shogun". And it isn't light.
FWIW, my tube-frame carbon-fiber Mini with a mid-mounted H22 is about 1500lbs, dry. I think that's heavy but oh well. Getting a 1000lb heavier
uni-body car into that same range is going to be very difficult.
[Edited on 8/30/06 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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scuzzer23
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 09:04 PM |
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I looked at the shogun. It's pretty badass IMO. You could get the weight down on that thing by using a lightweight turbocharged 4 banger instead
of the 3.0 SHO V6.
"A serious roll-cage, engine mounts, fuel tank mounts, turbo, bigger heavier wheels and tires - that's why - adding around 250lbs. Since
it's 2287lbs stock, now it's 2537lbs. So 537lbs has to come from somewhere. "
Well actually you got the CRX's numbers confused: 1967 + 250 = 2217. Which means you would have to remove 217 lbs or more, which doesn't
seem like it would be too hard using plexiglass and simply removing the A/C, spare tire, etc. As far as the budget goes, that was just a guess it may
be off, it's just my personal guestimate. I may be just thinking out loud here.
Thanks for the replies.
- Justin Peterson
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