Mansfield
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| posted on 1/11/06 at 10:03 PM |
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Mig welding is happening too quick for me
I was brought up on oxy-acetelyne welding where I can see the weld pool and slowly feed in the filler rod. I could see exactly what was going on and
what I needed to do to make the weld.
With Mig, it is just too quick for me to keep up. Its not just my poor home welder (Clarke 105EN converted to use gas) but the works welders as well.
Our works welders are good pieces of kit and I can get good welds, but it seems I get one shot at it and it either works or it didn't.
I think I am yet to see the weld pool and how the wire is feeding into (or creating) it. I can see the wire feeding into the convex weld, but not the
joint of the work because the torch is in the way. Its all happening so quickly, I can get neat welds but I dont really know if they are good enough
until I have a good look afterwards.
I am right handed, moving the torch from left to right and I have three different masks.
Three questions:
What am I missing?
Are there any courses in the West Notts area (I cant seem to find them)?
Would anyone who is suitably qualified be able to teach me the finer points for cash?
I have a theory that 0.6mm wire could slow it down for me.
I also have a theory that many people would feel like this if they had seen the 'slow-motion' welding with oxy-acetelyne and a filler
rod.
Thanks, David
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JohnN
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| posted on 1/11/06 at 10:06 PM |
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Go TIG then, if you can gas weld, you'll love it. Total control.
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lexi
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| posted on 1/11/06 at 10:16 PM |
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Thing is David they are all different skills. I`ve never gas welded but I feel a bit the same moving from Mig to stick.
Stick seems explosive to me after Mig. I think it`s kind of like your minds eye that guides you in the end..........Sorry guys. I went all Tantric
and far out there
Alex
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 1/11/06 at 10:18 PM |
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I know what you mean. I started off on oxy acetylene, welding lead. Took me a while to get the hang of mig for the same reasons you say but got it
now. Incidentally, I use 0.6mm wire.
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Chippy
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| posted on 1/11/06 at 10:50 PM |
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Hi David, I am also a born again gas welder, that now uses MIG all the time, (home projects only). From what you state in your post I think that you
are welding in the wrong direction, if right handed you should be welding right to left, total opposite of gas, you weld into the pool, and not away
from it, with the torch at around 45degs, so you can see the wire feed. Also a good welding shield is a definate, I find that mine, (auto), set on 9
suites me great, can see the weld pool easily. Hope this helps, Regards Ray
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 1/11/06 at 11:19 PM |
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With a MIG you should "Lead" the weld, that is the torch should be pointing toward the diriction of travel.
When I did gas welding at Tech I'd already used a MIG & could'nt belive how slow gas was!
You dont wait for the weld pool or watch it, just hold the torch at the right angle & when you squeeze the trigger you gotta move, no waiting. If
you weld thick to thin weld the thicker material & flow the weld onto the thin.
It just takes practice, some lessons at a night class would be time & money well spent.
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Peteff
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| posted on 1/11/06 at 11:50 PM |
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I am right handed, moving the torch from left to right
So you are covering the weld with the shroud and can't see where you want to, plus you are leaving the gas behind. Get comfortable and try using
both hands on the torch to keep it steady, lean over your work and weld away from you in a straight line. Clip the end off the wire before you start
a new weld and if you are working side to side tilt the nozzle slightly so you can see the weld and work the other way round, you're not writing
with it. Keep your glass clean and get about a 10 shield glass. If you have mig at work surely someone there uses them, get them to give you some
pointers. Whereabouts are you in the Mansfield area? I'm not that far away if you are really stuck.
[Edited on 2/11/06 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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zetec7
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| posted on 2/11/06 at 02:17 AM |
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What kind of hood (shield) are you using? My auto-dimming one's not as good as it could be, and I have the same problem - the weld
puddle's too bright to look at, and the area around it is too dark to tell where I'm going (sometimes I even run a bead well off the line
that I want). I'm going to have to break down and buy a better one
http://www.freewebs.com/zetec7/
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nitram38
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| posted on 2/11/06 at 04:19 AM |
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If you are right handed, work the torch towards you, in other words right to left. Keep nozzle slightly tilted towards you. You will be able to see
the weld.
Eventually, after practising on some scrap, you will be able to feel, hear, see the weld. It is just a knack that gets better with practise.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 2/11/06 at 05:49 AM |
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As other's have said, you are "pulling", not "pushing". Makes all the difference
Cheers
Fred W B
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NS Dev
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| posted on 2/11/06 at 08:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
I was brought up on oxy-acetelyne welding where I can see the weld pool and slowly feed in the filler rod. I could see exactly what was going on and
what I needed to do to make the weld.
With Mig, it is just too quick for me to keep up. Its not just my poor home welder (Clarke 105EN converted to use gas) but the works welders as well.
Our works welders are good pieces of kit and I can get good welds, but it seems I get one shot at it and it either works or it didn't.
I think I am yet to see the weld pool and how the wire is feeding into (or creating) it. I can see the wire feeding into the convex weld, but not the
joint of the work because the torch is in the way. Its all happening so quickly, I can get neat welds but I dont really know if they are good enough
until I have a good look afterwards.
I am right handed, moving the torch from left to right and I have three different masks.
Three questions:
What am I missing?
Are there any courses in the West Notts area (I cant seem to find them)?
Would anyone who is suitably qualified be able to teach me the finer points for cash?
I have a theory that 0.6mm wire could slow it down for me.
I also have a theory that many people would feel like this if they had seen the 'slow-motion' welding with oxy-acetelyne and a filler
rod.
Thanks, David
As everybody else has said, you normally need to push the weld (torch in right hand, shroud pointing to the left and down at 45 degrees, steadied by
left hand)
The other thing is to then wind the wire feed back, a bit at a time, until you are just crawling along.
You can weld pretty slowly with MIG if you set it up right. Just remember, just like gas welding, its the heat going into the area that you are trying
to control. The longer you stay in an area, the hotter it gets. You can back the power and wire down, and move more slowly, and get the same result as
going faster with more power and more wire.
If you were programming a robot welder you would push as fast as you could while maintaining a good weld, but doing precise jobs like you are, you
need to back all the settings down (although to be honest, a 100 amp mig is backed down all the time! )
cheers
Nat
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Minicooper
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| posted on 2/11/06 at 09:32 AM |
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Turn the speed of wire and power down, it shouldn't be so fast you have trouble controlling it, also use .6mm on the thin stuff, you will be
able to turn it even further down
David
[Edited on 2/11/06 by Minicooper]
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meany
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| posted on 2/11/06 at 10:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zetec7
What kind of hood (shield) are you using? My auto-dimming one's not as good as it could be, and I have the same problem - the weld
puddle's too bright to look at, and the area around it is too dark to tell where I'm going (sometimes I even run a bead well off the line
that I want). I'm going to have to break down and buy a better one
i found this originaly aswell.
try illuminating the area you are welding better, with a spotlight maybe...it worked for me.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 2/11/06 at 04:25 PM |
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Just to repeat what most have said, go right-left and turn all the settings down. You can go as fast or as slow as you like with mig. Also, where
possible use two hands to steady the torch, one hand on the trigger, and either one hand on/near the nozzle, or rest the nozzle on the glove. I found
changing from 0.6mm to 0.8mm wire helped no end.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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coozer
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| posted on 6/11/06 at 06:55 PM |
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Well I've read all the comments and they contradict each other. Right to left into left or away from it?
Some get results going from 0.8 to 0.6, other 0.6 to 0.8.  bewildering!
Being a gas man at the moment I was thinking of buying a Mig but having tried it before I found it rather disapointing. Now some ideas here have me
wondering whats what!!
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 6/11/06 at 07:13 PM |
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I went to a couple of 1-day courses at the local agricultural college, which was enough to grasp the basic principles.
Try and find a course nearby, or maybe someone who knows how to weld and is prepared to give you an hour or two. This sort of basic tuition is worth
100 hours of book/web reading.
Personally, I found that 90% of MIG welding was in setting up the wire feed, etc. Another 5% was in knowing when you've just made a crap weld
and knowing that it's time to reach for the angry grinder. The remaining 5% was learning how to hold the torch and move it!
A bit (lot!) of an exaggeration, but I don't think my percentages are too far wrong...
David
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DIY Si
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| posted on 6/11/06 at 08:09 PM |
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About right that! As per the left-right thing, you want to have the puddle in front of the torch and be pushing the weld, rather than pulling it, ie
have the gun over the weld you've just put down. This will vary for left and right handed people. I think the wire size is a little bit more
personal preference more than anything else. As said, the set up is the biggest part. Get that right and mig can be pretty much point and squirt.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 8/11/06 at 12:03 PM |
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I built most of my chassis with a 105E (using gas) and it's perfectly adequate for 16 gauge RHS, though it's pretty much at it's
limit doing the 3mm stuff.
I got a 150 amp MIG a while back and had to spend quite a while adjusting to it whilst blowing holes everywhere!
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