stulad
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 09:20 PM |
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Audi A8 engine & gearbox ???
Hi all
i was originally going chevy with my Minotaur but lack of work has seen my engine fund disapear 
with very good advice from a couple of very good friends i am thinking audi now A8 4.2 has been recommended for my mid engine car , but is this the
best option as i would be ok with a 3 litre . bearing in mind fuel prices and availablity.
as far as all the electrics involved with a new engine im way out of my depth so any thoughts or help would be great.
many thanks stu this is the space i have http://www.asci24.dsl.pipex.com/car/tanks3.JPG
& this is my car http://www.asci24.dsl.pipex.com/minotaur.htm
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Johnmor
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 09:31 PM |
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V6 Gem
What about an Alfa 24v 3.0l v6
Can be found in a lot of Alfa 164s for as little as £500, or go with a newer Alfa 166.
Saw one recently with 60,000 go for £1800, complete car
Great Engine, all alloy, 230bhp standard and can be tuned to 400hp with little cost compared to Audi or BMW.
Connection to gearbox may be an issue but not impossible.
Sound great and has a certain flair, I'm bias of course.
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stulad
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 09:33 PM |
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will i be able to use the gearbox also ?
because with the audi engine the gearbox will be usable also ??
like i said im clueless to what is available to me , thanks for ur input
bearing in mind my car is mid engine
[Edited on 24/11/06 by stulad]
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Wadders
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 09:44 PM |
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Lexus do a nice quad cam alloy v8.
or what about a nissan 300 V6 twin turbo?
with a suitable adapter plate, its possible to mate most engines with a transaxle, but i guess if you want it to be straight forward Audi would be the
way to go.
Only thing with a lot of modern engines is the electrics/ignition etc can be tricky as everything is linked to the ecu, so make sure you get a full
package that includes all the bits and bobs including the ignition barrel and key.
[Edited on 24/11/06 by Wadders]
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Johnmor
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 10:18 PM |
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Gearbox
Not sure on the set up in the car but replicas like the Hawk Stratos and many others simply take the front wheel drive setup and place it in the rear
of the car, giving rear wheel drive and using the original gearbox.
I would also second finding a complete donor vehicle for your engine as with modern ECUs you will almost certainly find if you just buy the engine,
half of its life support system will still be in the original vehcle.
If you are able to use the Audi transaxle then a conversion plate is not huge problem , may cost around £400-500.
It realy depends on budget, the Alfa V6 is a cheap engine to source as the donor vehicles value falls like a stone after a few years.
Parts are easy to get and the engine electrics are relativly simple compared to VW/Audi etc.
The engine loom on 94-98 cars is straight forward with little problems , even later cars are likly to be little different.
What gearbox were you going to mate to the Chevy engine?
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Wadders
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 11:44 PM |
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Never mind all that, just look at it  finest looking engine on the whole of locostbuilders. Imagine it sounds as nice as it looks too. 
]Originally posted by Johnmor
It realy depends on budget, the Alfa V6 is a cheap engine to source as the donor vehicles value falls like a stone after a few years.
Parts are easy to get and the engine electrics are relativly simple compared to VW/Audi etc.
The engine loom on 94-98 cars is straight forward with little problems , even later cars are likly to be little different.
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RazMan
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| posted on 25/11/06 at 08:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Only thing with a lot of modern engines is the electrics/ignition etc can be tricky as everything is linked to the ecu, so make sure you get a full
package that includes all the bits and bobs including the ignition barrel and key.
It is often best to scrap the original ecu as they have so many security & emmission control sensors built in nowadays it is easier to get back to
basics and go aftermarket. You can still use the engine loom and plumb it into an Emerald, MBE, Omex or similar. The initial outlay is obviously more
but you end up with a completely flexible mappable engine which will probably give you another 20% power as an added bonus.
The only sensors you really need on the engine will be crank angle, water temp & oil pressure - anything else is often unneccessary. This means
the engine loom is simplified enormously so no engine bay spaghetti !
So many big middy builders seem to gravitate towards the big Yank V8's and their 60's technology - who wants a carburettor in this day
& age when there are so many great (and modern) engines in the local scrappy! 300bhp in a car that weighs less than a ton has got to be fun which
ever way you look at it so why go for overkill? If it is the noise you are after then you can engineer an exhaust system to suit your eardrums and
make it sound conservative or loud & proud.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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Mies
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| posted on 25/11/06 at 09:07 AM |
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Audi
I've got an audi in my westfield (the 20V alu one, not the turbo) and am happy with it. Kronenburg Tuning in the Netherlands (the creators of
the KMS management system) are specialist in audi. Last time I was there they were having an Audi V10 on the engine bench that was going in an Ultima.
They have also delivered a higly tuned audi V8 for an Ultima some time ago.
You cannot use the original gearbox for this since all the bigger audi's are mated to a quattro box. However there seem to be tons of options in
the Audi/VW kit.
Afaik no audi box comes with a LSD. In the audi's the electronic uses the brakes to simulate.
Recently John (owner of Kronenburg) has started buying big batched of engines and gearboxes from audi directly (engine used as testbeds or simple in
the warehouse too long). I would give them a call. All the info on engine and gearbox combinations he should have.
Another option is www.audiparts.nl I know that they supply 1.8T engines with an original race-ECU coming from audisport. These ECU's are
identical to the normal ones but all the security and safety extras are taken out. Leaving a simple loom with just a plus and minus to connect...:-)
Megasportscars in the Netherlands use this in their XTR4 (in the 275bhp version) and it is great.
I know Audiparts also have a lot of V8's in stock but i don't know if they have the ECU's for them. They regularly buildt these
Engines in old Quattro models.
I would give them both a call and check what is possible.
Not a relation, just a happy customer from both companies.
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Johnmor
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| posted on 25/11/06 at 09:26 AM |
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Too much
Wadders, thanks for the compliment.
But I think there are some very smart four cylinder motors out there and the s2000 looks cool.
Thats the 12v version, looking for a 24v as a heart transplant!!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 25/11/06 at 12:49 PM |
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I was/am in a similar position to you, as I'm trying to find ways of affording a T70 replica, and looking for a nice cheap, powerful V8.
I'd imagine with your car you want a V8, for the sound if nothing else. I was looking at the newer chevy engines, such as the LS1, LS2, LS6 and
the newest and most powerful LS7, which is 540 bhp as stock! I've seen 98-00 ish LS1 and 2's for sale in the states for as little as
$1500, although shipping wouldn't be that cheap it may be worth a look. If you want a more local engine, I was looking at the Jag V8, available
in 4.0 and 4.2 versions. They also come with superchargers should you get the correct one, and the 4.2 supercharged version is 400 bhp and 400 lb ft
as stock. I was watching one on Ebay a few weeks back and a complete engine went for £750!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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stulad
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| posted on 25/11/06 at 07:37 PM |
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cheersb for all the help guys
think i will definately ditch the old small block idea and with my friends help
andy & raz will go the modern route.
in answer to Wadders question
i have a apparently reconditoned renault box its tag says un1 021 009892 Its from a Renault Espace V6. 3.89 final drive. apparently Good box also i
have a chevy / renault bell housing and i guess i will flog both if i got the audi route
cheers stu
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stulad
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 09:26 PM |
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sorry to drag this up again
but i have posted on loads of audi forums and im getting know were.
the prob im having is that no one seems to be able to tell me what v8/v6 engine comes with manual box and 2 wheel drive is the any audi experts here
.... please help , i cant afford another expensive mistake im getting no help from the car designer.
cheers stu (desperate)
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DIY Si
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 10:18 PM |
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Not sure about a direct answer to your question, but the transaxle used by most of the GT40's appears to be the one from the earlier Audi
80/100's. It's not that much bother using one engine and a differing transaxle, as making an adapter plate isn't that hard. It also
makes getting the bits together a little easier as you can buy an engine when funds allow and a transaxle when more funds allow. That's what
I'll be doing when/if I get to that stage. Also, all of the newer powerful Audis are 4x4's/quattro's so the transaxle are of limited
use.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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stulad
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| posted on 27/11/06 at 04:22 PM |
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Mies
who is "Recently John (owner of Kronenburg) has started buying big batched of engines and gearboxes from audi directly (engine used as testbeds
or simple in the warehouse too long). I would give them a call. All the info on engine and gearbox combinations he should have. " do u have any
contact details or web site ??
i think that i will be looking for a newish a8 engine 3 litre or 4.2 , im hoping that the stud pattern is the same as a tdi model so i can use the tdi
gearbox, dont suppose anyone knows the answer to that ??
cheers for everyones help
stu
[Edited on 27/11/06 by stulad]
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stevebubs
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| posted on 27/11/06 at 07:42 PM |
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http://www.vankronenburg.nl/
[Edited on 27/11/06 by stevebubs]
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stulad
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| posted on 27/11/06 at 07:58 PM |
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thanks for that , in the mean time
I could not find any info on a a8 with manual gearbox , i think they are all multitronic, (would that work in a kit car ?)
i did however find a car that might do the job
Audi A6 s-line 3.2 litre fsi, it uses a 6 speed manual gearbox and is front wheel drive
does anyone know anymore about this car ?
cheers stu
[Edited on 27/11/06 by stulad]
[Edited on 27/11/06 by stulad]
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stulad
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| posted on 30/11/06 at 09:12 PM |
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I have found another really useful forum for this thread
& on it there is an increadible Lotus project car
that a guy called Hilly is doing & he has solved a lot of
this stuff , take a look
www.motorgeek.com:80/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9648
thanks for everyones help
now does anyone know were i can get A8 Engine & 2.5tdi 2wd
gearbox ??
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RazMan
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| posted on 30/11/06 at 10:09 PM |
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Looking at that thread I am now thinking that maybe my Duratec wasn't the best enging to use in my car after all - it looks really compact.
The guy can obviously handle a mill & lathe - those gearchange bits look really neat.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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stulad
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| posted on 30/11/06 at 11:23 PM |
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impressive isnt it?
and yes im going to go down that route so Razman get ready for some serious electronics get ur multi meter ready
lol just need to find the major components for the right price now 
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thomas4age
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| posted on 1/12/06 at 05:53 AM |
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Hey STulad,
In the audi department look for a
016 number box or the later 01E but watch out with the last one the do come in Quatro and 2wd.
the 2wd 016 boxes are almost non gettable anymore because of the lamboreplica builders, (smart of them ejh)
here's a quite comprehensive list of audi transaxle's though I don't know whether anyone is abel to prove the boxes being quatro or
not, maybe a vehicle search is in order
http://www.dieselschrauber.de/audi_zuord.html
grtz Thomas
[Edited on 1/12/06 by thomas4age]
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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