MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 03:29 PM |
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Couple of questions regarding welding gas
Hi all,
Firstly, want to give a big thanks to MikeR, who has just given me a couple of gas bottles. Thanks again Mike!! I've got home and checked the
regulator that came with the welder, (Clarke 160T) and I've got a male fitting, whereas the bottle (Pub type) has a different fitting. So do I
just need a different regulator? If so can you point me in the right direction? And also, are you able to fill pub CO2 bottles with Argon? I
don't see why not, as thats what I'm planning.
Cheers
Matt
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 03:38 PM |
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You can get CO2 regulators fairly cheaply off Fleabay, but make sure they fit 'pub' type bottles.
I doubt if any gas supplier ( BOC Air Products etc) will fill a CO2 bottle with Argon, because as you say, the connections are totally different. Like
Oxy and Acetalene are different for obvious reasons, it's a safety thing.
[Edited on 26/11/06 by Confused but excited.]
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 04:01 PM |
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will i be able to use a CO2 regulator with argon, or is there a difference in the way they are made? Seen one in machine mart page 94, IR2C looks like
it would fit. But just unsure as to whether its ok with argon. I should be good to go then i think . .
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budge
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 04:01 PM |
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The tube where the nut is, can be unscrewed and you can then replace this nut with one from the horn from a co2 fire extingisher
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clementine
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 04:29 PM |
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Don't forget that CO2 is stored as a liquid typically at lower pressure than argon. Some CO2 only regs won't take the pressure.
You'd be lucky to find someone to fill the CO2 bottle with Argon, but if you are welding mild steel only then give CO2 a shot - it's not
soo bad. A friendly pub might be able to organise refills.
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 04:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MattCraneCustoms
will i be able to use a CO2 regulator with argon, or is there a difference in the way they are made? Seen one in machine mart page 94, IR2C looks like
it would fit. But just unsure as to whether its ok with argon. I should be good to go then i think . .
If you look again at page 94, you will see the difference between the Argon reg and the CO2 reg. As stated previously an Argon cylinder is under much
higher pressure than a CO2 one. Mixing any gases and cylinders is probably illegal and certainly stupidly dangerous.
It only costs about £17 to refill a CO2 'pub' type cylinder, even if your friendly neighbourhood landlord charges you full whack for a
refill.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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MikeR
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 05:03 PM |
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My regulator is an argon one and happily does CO2.
If you go to Nuneaton Welding Supplies (seeing as you're relitively local) they'll have the required connectors. Just make sure
you're careful which bottle you take with you 
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 05:04 PM |
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"Some CO2 only regs won't take the pressure."
NO CO2 regs will take the pressure!! The reg will come off with the force of a shell from a 40mm cannon - DONT GO THERE
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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clementine
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 05:15 PM |
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quote:
NO CO2 regs will take the pressure!! The reg will come off with the force of a shell from a 40mm cannon - DONT GO THERE
Actually some are argon regs with different fittings so would take the pressure, but it makes sense checking what is written on the box for the
reasons you describe. Same goes for the gas cylinder.
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MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 06:07 PM |
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so to summarise, I need to either adapt the CO2 cylinder, via adaptor, to fit an argon regulator if I want to use argon. Else I've gotta use
CO2, or else face possible death. I'll see what adaptors I can get to change the bottle thread to fit an argon reg. Just to edit, I want to use
Argoshield or Argon / CO2 mix, as I understand this gives a neater and better weld. Still guess I need the argon reg. but If I can get a thread
adaptor, as I said above, should be ok yeah?
[Edited on 26/11/06 by MattCraneCustoms]
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clementine
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 06:32 PM |
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Not exactly - there is also the question of pressure rating for the CO2 bottle. I have no idea whether they are designed to the same spec as Argon
bottles, but the Co2 ones tend to be filled to 60bar and argon ones to 230 bar. The rated pressure might be stamped somewhere on the bottle.
Adapters for an argon reg are available from Machine Mart.
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paulf
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 07:01 PM |
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You cant use C02 bottles for any other gas safely , maximum pressure is about 1000psi at room temp , argon and argon mixes are nearer 3000psi.
I have always used pure C02 as in pub bottles and fire extinguishers and get acceptable welds with it. By the time the chassis is painted etc no one
will be able to tell any difference in the welds.Just adapt your reg to fit and get the bottle filled with CO2.
Paul.
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MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 08:12 PM |
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cheers for that paul. just went and checked one of the bottles, it has 3360 PSI stamped into it, but i'll just have to go with CO2. my main
concern was that the weld was bad compared to argoshield
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paulf
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 09:27 PM |
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That will probably be the test pressure not the safe working presure.
The advantage of CO2 is also that it is said to give a hotter weld and more penetration, it isnt really an issue on thin tube but may be better for
welding heavier sections.
I have used aroshield at work but wouldnt waste money renting bottles for home use, it may give a neater weld but with practice you wont have any
problems with CO2.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by MattCraneCustoms
cheers for that paul. just went and checked one of the bottles, it has 3360 PSI stamped into it, but i'll just have to go with CO2. my main
concern was that the weld was bad compared to argoshield
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Peteff
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| posted on 26/11/06 at 09:57 PM |
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Most argon bottles are now filled to 300bar, about 4500psi with pressurised gas whereas co2 is stored as a liquid at a much lower pressure and filled
by weight of liquid. You can buy an adaptor to use argon reg on co2 but not the other way round.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 27/11/06 at 04:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by paulf
That will probably be the test pressure not the safe working presure.
The advantage of CO2 is also that it is said to give a hotter weld and more penetration, it isnt really an issue on thin tube but may be better for
welding heavier sections.
I have used aroshield at work but wouldnt waste money renting bottles for home use, it may give a neater weld but with practice you wont have any
problems with CO2.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by MattCraneCustoms
cheers for that paul. just went and checked one of the bottles, it has 3360 PSI stamped into it, but i'll just have to go with CO2. my main
concern was that the weld was bad compared to argoshield
C02 seems to give a colder weld to me. I use it for very thin car stuff a lot and it helps stop burn-through where argoshield does not. Seems to give
a colder weld pool for the same setup. C02 has a higher heat capacity iirc
[Edited on 27/11/06 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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clementine
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| posted on 27/11/06 at 10:25 PM |
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The main problem with pure CO2 (unless you are at the upper or lower limits of the welder where cold or hot would actually matter) is that the arc
stability is poor.
It seems to jump out every now and again as if the metal was a little dirty. Keep on going and the weld works out OK, but it's a little
disconcerting. You get a bit more spatter too.
Friendly pub supplied CO2 is a lot cheaper than the Argon/CO2 mixes so there's a compromise between price and nice to use.
Sheesh I'm bothering you guys a lot - should probably get my coat.
[Edited on 27/11/06 by clementine]
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jono_misfit
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 12:17 PM |
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"It only costs about £17 to refill a CO2 'pub' type cylinder, even if your friendly neighbourhood landlord charges you full whack
for a refill. "
My local pub landlord rents me some of his pure C02 pub gas at £5 a go for the bigger cylinders....
Think i should keep quite then if the recharge rate if nearly £20 a go....
[Edited on 28/11/06 by jono_misfit]
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