David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 08:10 PM |
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Oil pressure while cranking over
I have a frantic question!
After 6-ish years I actually tried cranking the engine over to see if I could get some oil pressure, before I fill it with water, etc. and an
'engine out' gets really difficult...
My question is, should I see some oil pressure and/or put the oil pressure warning light out when just cranking the engine over with the starter? This
is with the plugs out and the coil disconnected.
'cos, at the moment, I don't... 
I think oil's getting around the engine, as the engine cranked slowly to start with, then cranked really fast after 10 seconds or so, as if oil
had reached the important bits.
Thing is, the pressure gauge reads zero (could be wired wrong of course) and the oil light stays on.
Help!
David
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 08:34 PM |
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What engine is it?
The V8 is nootorious for this, and you have to either pop the dizzy off and drive the pump with a drill, or flip the pump base off and pack it with
vaseline.
If it's an XFlow, then I've heard the same for these, as they can be a bugger to get the pump primed if it has drained. I don't
profess to knowing much about the XF engine, so I'll leave the judgements to those who know more about them than I do.
Also, the oil light and gauge both seem to coroborate each other, but check the connections anyway. I take it's electrical, rarther than
capiliary? Assuming the sender is OK, then you should at least see *something* when cranking it, rarther than it sitting on the stop down at the
f*ck-end of the scale.
I'd go for the oil pump having un-primed itself meself.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 08:37 PM |
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Mmm...
The instruction book said 'don't forget to prime the oil pump before fitting it' and I can't remember whether I did or not.
BTW - it's a crossflow. (forgot to mention it before)
Job for tomorrow, I reckon!
cheers,
David
[Edited on 12/7/03 by David Jenkins]
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 08:47 PM |
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Doh!
Better get the Vas. out then  
Never mind. I shall reveal a tale from my youth involving nine months of paper round hell and a brand new Rover 3.9 short block if you like
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 09:13 PM |
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Instead of Vaseline try neat STP, its kinder on the bearings (leave the vaseline for the chaps!?!)
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 09:17 PM |
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Doubt whether it makes that much difference to be honest. The first thing I would be doing after starting an engine up after that much of a lay off
would be to change the oil for something fresh anway.
Unless it's a Land Rover of course. The longer you leave one of them, the better it runs 
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 09:29 PM |
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Best thing for a land rover or a deranged rover is a box of swan vesta
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 09:39 PM |
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Oi! I 'eard that!
Probably *not* the best thing to say to someone of my stature Mark
Besides, Land Rover ceased to be in 1996 anyway 
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 09:54 PM |
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I did see a land rover with a Dutton Phaeton body on it once, looked quite good, but it did smell funny though
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 10:03 PM |
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That'll be the Dutton
Part of my college project had me turn a Range Rover into this swamp buggy thing for my local off road centre (before the NIMBYs complained too much
and they closed down ).
Awesome fun 
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Gizmo
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| posted on 12/7/03 at 11:10 PM |
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David, crossflows are indeed terrible for this, given that you've already installed it. Get some jump leads on it (with a running car connected
to the other end). This will make the engine crank faster and is usually sufficient to prime the pump. (you did also fill the oil filter before
installing it didn't you ?)
---john---
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/7/03 at 07:52 AM |
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To be honest, the pump and filter went on so long ago that I can't remember what I did with them.
My garage was too hot to mess around yesterday, but sometime this week I'll whip off the pump and make sure that it and the filter are full of
oil. It's only a 10-minute job anyway.
I tried 2 batteries, but it didn't help - in fact it turned over at just the same speed! I did it with the plugs out anyway, and it's
spinning over pretty fast. I used 2 batteries so they weren't hit too hard by the work of cranking over a newly assembled engine.
cheers,
David
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timf
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| posted on 14/7/03 at 09:34 AM |
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Dave have you tried the drill / adaptor method to get some oil pressure?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/7/03 at 10:00 AM |
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Don't see how that would work - the pump has to be bolted to the side of the block so that it has somewhere to 'suck and blow'! (if
you pardon the expression...  )
DJ
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timf
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| posted on 14/7/03 at 10:39 AM |
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opps
mixed up xflow pinto
Tim
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Dave Ashurst
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| posted on 14/7/03 at 08:12 PM |
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Did you fit a new pump when you rebuilt the engine?
The lobes in an old pump can be quite badly scored. That can make it difficult to get the pressure going, even when you think it's been well
primed.
Dave
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/7/03 at 07:36 AM |
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It was new (well, recon anyway).
I took the pump off last night - even a gentle turn of the spindle gets oil glooping out of the exit hole. I poured some oil in to top up the filter,
just in case. Still the same result.
Tonight's job is to take one of the oil sensors off to see how fast it come out of there.
There's oil in the rocker cover area, which is the final part of the lubrication system, so I reckon oil's getting through - just not very
fast.
cheers for the help so far!
David
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 15/7/03 at 09:41 AM |
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I wonder, David, if its just that at cranking speed (whatever that is) the pump isnt very efficient and that you will only get pressure at tickover
(900 revs or so).
The only comparison I can make is V12 jag. The oil pressure on them is crap. Its normal to start with cold / warm oil and get almost 60psi on
tickover.
Once engine is hot, the tickover oil pressure drops to less than 10 psi - about 7 on my car that has a warrnated 55k miles. Pressure went back to
about 45 at 2000 rpm.
This is apparently 'normal', and is well documented on the web. On later V12 jag actually connected the oil guage to a simple switch - it
read half way when switch closed, and fell to zero when open!!!!
atb
steve
[Edited on 15/7/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/7/03 at 10:00 AM |
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Steve,
I'm starting to think that way as well.
If I get a good flow from the sensor hole then I can assume that the pump is OK - the sensors are screwed into an oil chamber that's 'next
in line' after the pump itself.
My main concern is that the oil pressure switch isn't operating - it's one of the original "if this light comes on, your engine will
seize in 0.5 seconds, 'cos you have no oil pressure whatsoever" type!
David
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 15/7/03 at 10:03 AM |
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Have you also checked the relief valve?
It may be stuck open. 's an easy job, normally just a bolt/spring/ball afair.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/7/03 at 10:20 AM |
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Good thinking...
(bugger - that means I've got to get oily AGAIN!)
Where do I find the valve, once I've got the pump in me hand? Anyone got a drawing, or a link to a useful site?
DJ
[Edited on 15/7/03 by David Jenkins]
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 15/7/03 at 03:46 PM |
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in 1980 i had a company mk2 escort. at newport pagnel service station the oil light came on. I rushed into the garage (i was late getting home) and
bout a half can (2 1/2 litres) of oil and zonked the whole lot in expecting an empty engine.
when I started the car, it was interesting. The crank was hitting the oil, and was creating smoke from oil fires that would have made saddam proud.
moral of story - dont jump to conclusions, it might just be the switch thats broke!!!
atb
steve
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 15/7/03 at 04:03 PM |
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quote:
moral of story - dont jump to conclusions, it might just be the switch thats broke!!!
But a switch_and_guage?
Obviously the wiring gotta be checked and double checked, but I wouldn't have expected both to be duff, especially as they use different
senders.
[Edited on 15/7/03 by Fatboy Dave]
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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owbow
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 posted on 17/7/03 at 11:07 AM |
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i cranked and cranked my x-flow in the fiesta after it's latest rebuild (dry sumped as well so loads of pipes cooler etc to pump it through)
in the end i just gave up and started it (only to tickover speed, but then it hadn't had a new camshaft so tickover was ok)light went out
straight away... just seemed that cranking speed wasn't quite quick enough...?
o.
building it, but someone else is gonna drive it... i must be daft!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 12:48 PM |
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Steve & 'o',
I think I'll follow your suggestions - if I get a decent flow out of the pressure sensor hole when cranking then I'll leave it alone and
wait until I'm ready to start the engine.
Oil is getting to the top of the engine, which is the end of the oil circuit, so I'm no longer excessively worried (but I'll be keeping a
close eye on it for the few seconds following start-up )
cheers to all,
David
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