lsdweb
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 03:04 PM |
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Puma 1.7 Engine ?
Hi All
I've been lurking on this forum for a while but this is my first post. I have a 1300 Crossflow engined Locost (road - legal 750 MC race car).
I'm running in sprints & hillclimbs in the 1700 cc class and want / need to change the engine. I'll most likely go for a Zetec but
want to stay in the 1700 cc class. I'm considering using the Puma Zetec (VVT?). Has anybody successfully done this before?
Regards
Wyn
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Northy
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 03:54 PM |
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I believe they are all Ali aren't they? And easily capable of 200+ bhp?
I think a few of the Westy boys use them.
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing! 
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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ned
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 04:29 PM |
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I've heard the puma engine is very good, though is quite different to the other range of zetch engines. don't know how or why though!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 04:34 PM |
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suposed to be designed by yamaha,revs like hell and goes like the clappers,watch it if you change timing belt,crank pulley is held on by the crank
pulley bolt being tight,loosen it and it all goes floppy
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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ChrisW
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 05:00 PM |
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A good friend of mine has a Puma 1.7. It's got something to do with Yamaha and has variable valve timing so it revs like anything and suddenly
finds itself about 5k rpm and pulls harder than ever. Bound to be loads of electronics with it but it can't be that hard to do - I know
it's a popular transplant for the Fiesta boys so it might be worth having a look at sites like FiestaTurbo.com.
Can grab a couple of photos if it's any use to you?
Chris
My gaff my rules
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ned
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 05:04 PM |
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silly question, but i assume you have checked the 1700cc puma engine will be allowed in the 1700cc class. not an expert but do they allow 4 valves per
cylinder and variable valve timing. and is the engine actually within 1700cc ie not 1714cc or anything silly.
sorry if these are stupid questions, perhaps i'm thinking of stock hatch for 1.4 16v or 1.6 8v limits....
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 05:37 PM |
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Duratec?
Is that what they call the Duratec engine?
Mountune do some very powerful/expensive versions of this engine.
http://www.mountune.com/acatalog/DI4220kit185.html
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Noodle
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 07:00 PM |
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I believe the cylinder bores have a plating process applied to them by Yamaha. The engine is Ford's. Normally nickasil bores are linered but I
understand that these are plated in the block.
There was talk of blocks being shipped to Japan purely for the plating process then being returned to Europe for assembly. That would seem absurd on a
bread-and-butter muppet-mobile but I'm sure someone else has more accurate information.
Because they're plated, over-bores to get close to your class limit won't be possible, at least without re-nikasil-ing the bores.
How about a +60 crossflow
Cheers,
Neil.
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david walker
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 09:16 PM |
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Engine is Zetec, not Duratec. Designed by Yamaha. Engine is 1689cc, so under 1700. I may be wrong but I'm sure you can bore them. You certainly
can bore the sister engines, the 1250 and 1400, which have a cast iron, dry linered alloy block. Good engine - Conrod makes a good point about the
crankshaft timing belt pulley though - no keyway - amateurs steer clear of changing timing belts!
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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lsdweb
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 09:25 PM |
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Hi All
Many thanks for all your replies - I should have posted months ago!
In response - I'll have a good look at the various Zetec sites. I'm not sure about the actual capacity of the Puma Zetec but I'll
check - I think the class is restricted to 1700cc plus a certain allowance for a rebore (+ 10 thou?).
I've got an untouched 1600 Crossflow in the garage which is up for sale on Ebay. I think I'm already committed to a more
"modern" engine and have to expect to spend some money (budget approx £1800) on a more modern engine and management system.
I've had (actually my wife has had!) a couple of VVC/VVT engined cars - Rover VVi and current MX5) and these have revved like bu**ery.
I don't mind loads of electrics - I actually enjoy that bit!
Regards-
Wyn
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A Badger
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 09:36 PM |
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I remember reading some comments from Ford about the engine when the Puma was released. They actually found it a bit of a stuggle to keep the power
output down to 125BHP. The bean counters all felt that this was the magic figure to get the insurance rating right, and to sell it to the right
market.
The techies felt they could have almost chosen any output and got good solid power.
Then there was also the short lived (and expensive) racing Puma. That had a much greater output without major engine changes....
What about the Toyota 4-Age? 'Only' 1600cc but a fine engine and there's plenty of experts about to help.
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lsdweb
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 09:46 PM |
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The 4AGE looks interesting - tell me more!
I'm up against a 180BHP XE powered Fisher Fury this season - I don't suppose it'll get any easier next year! I need horses at a
reasonable cost!
Wyn
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A Badger
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 09:56 PM |
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The 4-Age could be considered Toyota's XE, but in this case 1600cc rather than 2000cc.
Small, light, rev's to 8000rpm. Was installed in Mk1 MR2's and Corrolla's. Importantly there were some RWD Corrolla's (vary
popular for rallying) so you can either fit a toyota gearbox or get a type 9 conversion kit.
Raw Engineering can supply them in various states of tune up to 175BHP.
If your up against and XE why not go the same route?
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lsdweb
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 10:03 PM |
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I like to be different!
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A Badger
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 10:08 PM |
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A good enough reason.
Might make some of your engine development a little more tricky though.
Has anyone used the Renault 16V engine (out of the R19 and early 16V clio's). That's 1700cc if I recall and was quite a nice motor.
Don't know what the options are for converting to RWD though.
That would be different....
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 07:44 AM |
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Duratec
Where does the Duratec come from?
What is it?
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ned
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 08:44 AM |
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i was gonna wave the vauxhall flag and say why not use the 1.6xe but you appear to have answered my question. I do know with a big enough budget it
can go upto 256bhp as this is what SBD's demo/test/competition car is at!
Ned.
ps are jap engines any good? mx5 or vtech jobbies?
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Browser
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 11:25 AM |
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quote:
Good engine - Conrod makes a good point about the crankshaft timing belt pulley though - no keyway - amateurs steer clear of changing timing belts!
Good engine, apart from this slight oversight I would have said! Who in their right mind would design a crank pulley with no key/keyway? It'
snot like they're expensive, or even difficult to machine so why leave them out? I thought it was daft enough on the early Citroen/Peugeot XU
engines that they had no key/keyway on the oil pump drive sprocket, resulting in failed engines when the sprocket slipped.
If you want a different engine, why not try a Citroen/Peugeot 16v XU? They are all alloy and push out 165 bhp in road trim with plenty of potential
for tuning. Their only drawback is that they are a bit tall.
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andyps
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 01:39 PM |
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Someone I know has been using a Puma 1.7 in his Westfield hillclimb car this year - it certainly seems to be getting him some good times at Harewood
Hillclimb.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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Peteff
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 03:16 PM |
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Duratec to rear wheel drive.
I read that the duratec uses a different stud pattern to the standard Ford fitting which enabled you to use the gearbox from Sierra to convert
practically anything to RWD. If it's a bellhousing conversion it could prove an expensive exercise.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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CliveM
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 04:04 PM |
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Guys, not been here long, but to confirm:
the 1.7 Sigma is of Yamaha design and the cylinder block is nicasil lined (plated) in the parent metal bore ie no cast in steel liner.
the crankshaft is also nitrided, and the engine has VVT on the inlet camshaft.
How do I know, you ask?... I work for Wealdstone Engineering who are Fords petrol engine re-manufacturer, and we should be introducing the 1.7 in the
near future.
Hope this helps,
Clive
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lsdweb
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 06:36 PM |
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Thansk Again All
This Forum is excellent - the only other forum I've participated in was the Firefighters' (Strike) Forum - lots of misinformation at a
time when we needed help / support - but that's another story!
I'll be on Ebay later looking for engines - still don't know what I want though!
Wyn
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lsdweb
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| posted on 3/9/03 at 07:47 AM |
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And what about the 1.6 Zetec (Fiesta etc) ? Is this worth loking at? The figures I've seen are a bit low on torque and power.
Wyn
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