DeanF
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 posted on 5/8/07 at 08:35 PM |
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Type 9 % speeder, 1st & 2nd Gear Virtually un-selectable !!
Hi.
My 1st post
I have a Locost fitted with a Zetec 1.8 & a Type 9 sierra 5 speeder.
1st & 2nd gears are virtually un-selectable, No amount of double de clutching, Blipping Etc helps, You have to be really forcefull, To the point
of Brutness.
Once you have cleared the gate with force fulllness the gear will select (whilst staionary Etc) but once on the move it's a right pain.
It's like a very bad baulking !!
Any ideas ?
& which would be the best approach, Buy a 2nd user unit ? Or have the faulty one reconditioned ?
Best palces for both ??
Im near Leek, Staffs ST13 Area.
Thanks
Dean :thumb:
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 08:42 PM |
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Can you select reverse with the engine running, if not it sounds very much like the clutch is not clearing. If you can get reverse what oil do you
have in the gearbox? type 9s should not use EP 80 or 90 use a synthetic 70/80 The Comma oil is highly recommended
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DeanF
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 09:02 PM |
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Hi.
Reverse can be selected easily when the engine is running, Which made me think a broken baulk ring or slector shaft wear !!
As for the oil, Im not sure & need to investigate as i have only had the car for a few days, It's a project for the months ahead.
Thanks
Dean
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Can you select reverse with the engine running, if not it sounds very much like the clutch is not clearing. If you can get reverse what oil do you
have in the gearbox? type 9s should not use EP 80 or 90 use a synthetic 70/80 The Comma oil is highly recommended
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 09:29 PM |
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sounds like clutch to me too
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DeanF
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 09:34 PM |
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Hi .
Wouldn't reverse be a pig to select though with an i'll clearing clutch ??
How much oil should a Type 9 gearbox hold ? as i will not be able to fill it on the level !!
Thanks
Dean
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
sounds like clutch to me too
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 09:37 PM |
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would think so, but who knows, its not synchro on the type 9 so it may just flick in. certainly sounds odd.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 11:05 PM |
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type 9 = 1.9ltrs
SAE 80EP to ford spec ESC-M2C 175-A (Duckhams Hypoid 75W-90S)
according to the manual
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 11:38 PM |
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There is specific mention to this problem in the haynes manual. They suggest for 1st and 2nd selection problems a switch to fully synthetic helps.
Personally I can't see how that would make much difference but there we go. Worth a try surely!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 04:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andylancaster3000
There is specific mention to this problem in the haynes manual. They suggest for 1st and 2nd selection problems a switch to fully synthetic helps.
Personally I can't see how that would make much difference but there we go. Worth a try surely!
BELIEVE. Cost me £300+ for a Ford exchange recon box once. Just because someone had topped the gearbox up with ordinary EP80/90 gear oil. Synthetic IS
the ONLY way to go.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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procomp
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 07:16 AM |
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Hi you will find that the blocker bars between the syncroes on 1st and 2nd have fallen out and now sat in the bottom of the box.
Its a verry common problem and the only way to fix is a complete rebuild.
I you want to check take the lid off and select 1st or 2nd gear so you can see the brass syncroes. Around the out side you should be able to see three
cut outs with small steel bars potruding under the gear it's self.
If the bars are not there and there is just a gap in the syncro then they have droped out and gear selection is as you have described.
cheers matt
Edit. The myth of using synthetic oil to cure the problem is just another haynes c##k up. Changing oil is not going to magicaly pick the blocker bars
of the magnet in the bottom and put them back where they belong.For spirited driving use EP80. For race use mod the gears also.
[Edited on 6/8/07 by procomp]
[Edited on 6/8/07 by procomp]
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Danozeman
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 08:48 AM |
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quote:
ordinary EP80/90 gear oil. Synthetic IS the ONLY way to go.
Iv got normal in mine. Changes perfect.
If its only in 1st and second it cant be the clutch.
Get another box from the scrappy. Cheap enough. For the cost of as box from a scrappy i wouldnt bother rebuilding it.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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DeanF
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 08:52 AM |
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Cheers for all your help & info
All the best
Dean 
[Edited on 6/8/07 by DeanF]
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Peteff
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 09:28 AM |
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Mine have always had ep80
Never been a problem, it's also what the manual recommends and what came in them from Ford. Why should it suddenly start causing a problem
unless there's not enough of it in there?
"using synthetic oil to cure the problem is just another haynes c##k up"
I have a Haynes Sierra manual as well and nowhere in it does it advise synthetic oil for gearbox use.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 10:24 AM |
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Other thing it could be is apartially seized neddle roller bearing.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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DeanF
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 10:31 AM |
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Hi Matt.
Thanks for the reply.
What would cause this issue ? Is it purely just mechanical wear or is caused by having the box upside down ? On it's side Etc ?
Just a thought.
thanks
Dean
quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi you will find that the blocker bars between the syncroes on 1st and 2nd have fallen out and now sat in the bottom of the box.
Its a verry common problem and the only way to fix is a complete rebuild.
I you want to check take the lid off and select 1st or 2nd gear so you can see the brass syncroes. Around the out side you should be able to see three
cut outs with small steel bars potruding under the gear it's self.
If the bars are not there and there is just a gap in the syncro then they have droped out and gear selection is as you have described.
cheers matt
Edit. The myth of using synthetic oil to cure the problem is just another haynes c##k up. Changing oil is not going to magicaly pick the blocker bars
of the magnet in the bottom and put them back where they belong.For spirited driving use EP80. For race use mod the gears also.
[Edited on 6/8/07 by procomp]
[Edited on 6/8/07 by procomp]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 12:00 PM |
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ahh, i have learnt something there!
Only "fault" with the type 9 in mine is that the 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd shifts are not as quick as they could be, and I try not to
whack them in as i know the baulk rings are not the sturdiest pieces in std form.
Its deffo something in the synchro design as at "normal" revs the change is as fast as the lever, but when revving through to the limiter
you do have to let the gear drop in rather than it just flicking in.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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procomp
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 02:30 PM |
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Hi the reason they drop out is that the small section of the brass syncroe below the bar breaks as it's a weak desighn.
This leaves only the circular spring clip and the gear holding the bars in place.
It is always best to be gentile with a g/box and take time to change. This problem gets amplified when fitting a quickshift. Espesialy whith a short
leaver.
My personel favorite setup is a good quickshift raldes or quaife and a tall leaver so that with gentile use you can feel what is hapening with the
syncroes as they go in. Then use smoothly and presicley and not hard forced and rushed changes.
Unfortunaly a rebuild on a type 9 is about £200-£300 but as said cheap as chips in the breakers for road use. And pull the lid off when buying and
check syncroes and bars are all in place.
cheers matt
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DeanF
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 03:51 PM |
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Thanks again Matt.
One more on this subject Honest.
Is a 5 speeder out of a 2Ltr Grannie The same as the type 9 sierra, (Electronic Speedo drive) The breakers says the ratio's Etc are all the same
& the box is identicle, apart from the possible difference of Mechanical Speedo drive & electronic.
Just checked Mine ( I could not before) & the gearbox in my car has a mechanical Speedo drive, Is the only alternative to fit an electronic speedo
with a gearbox that has an electronic speedo drive ?
Cheers
Dean
quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi the reason they drop out is that the small section of the brass syncroe below the bar breaks as it's a weak desighn.
This leaves only the circular spring clip and the gear holding the bars in place.
It is always best to be gentile with a g/box and take time to change. This problem gets amplified when fitting a quickshift. Espesialy whith a short
leaver.
My personel favorite setup is a good quickshift raldes or quaife and a tall leaver so that with gentile use you can feel what is hapening with the
syncroes as they go in. Then use smoothly and presicley and not hard forced and rushed changes.
Unfortunaly a rebuild on a type 9 is about £200-£300 but as said cheap as chips in the breakers for road use. And pull the lid off when buying and
check syncroes and bars are all in place.
cheers matt
[Edited on 6/8/07 by DeanF]
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procomp
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 07:28 AM |
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Hi i am not entirerly shure as to what exact ratios are around for a type 9.
The reason is that some locost racers swear they use a granada 5th gear. A gearbox expert i trust tells me there are 3 0r 4 different ratios available
from ford as std for 5th. And a verry good friend in ford technical tells me there is only the one 5th ratio in a type 9 regardless of fittment.
To be honest i use 4 speed for locost racing. But for all other kit racing we use quaife ratio kit's so you chose what you want of thier
list.
So of no help there im'e afraid other than to say you will have to check each g/box for the 5th ratio by selecting 5th gear and acuratley
turning the input and measuring the number of turn on the output to find the ratio.
Cheers matt
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DeanF
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 10:19 AM |
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Well.
Hopefully I think i have cured my problem !!!
The gearstick/linkage had been extended to be closer to the handbrake. I removed this setup & fitted the gearstick only back into it's
original location, Tried the car back & forth in the garage (as it was P!ssing it down )
All seemed well, 1st & 2nd gear could be selected easily (& so could reverse !! No reverse stop !!)
This prompted me to think the linkage extender was at fault so investigated. The U shaped shaft that fits over the selector shaft in the top of the
box was quite worn & oversized, The sliding rod was sloppy also. The reverse stop was mal adjusted. With some dabs of weld & an angle grinder
later the whole extender setup was much more of a defined fit & gear selection seemed much happier.
I hope & think that the above issues all contributed to the problem.
The proof of the pudding will be on the road, Assuming it stays dry , i should know tonight !!
One thing ? Who stole the gearbox drain Plug !!?? From my Type 9 Box, There's not one there !!
Cheers
Dean
[Edited on 7/8/07 by DeanF]
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Peteff
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 10:50 AM |
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Who stole the gearbox drain Plug ?
There isn't one, only a filler/level plug on the side.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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DeanF
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 01:19 PM |
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Slightly off topic here, But i found out last night that the little Mercedes Smart Cars don't even have an engine oil drain plug 
You have to suck the oil out through the dipstick hole.
How Fecking daft is that !!
Dean
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
There isn't one, only a filler/level plug on the side.
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