2b_pablo
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:06 PM |
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fuel atomisation?
had a breakdown for the second time today. first time was on track after a good session but today was after a good bit of road driving.
problems start with the car spluttering then conking out, will restart then run for a bit then die again.
my theory is thats its heat soak from the engine (2.1 pinto) into the carbs (twin 40s).
first time i ditched the car and by the time i got back with the trailer it ran ok, today i got towed and when i got home (about an hour after
breaking down) I tried it quickly to see if i could get it up the drive into the garage. started perfectly and drove fine for the few yards up to the
garage.
Now after the first incident I cut a hole in the bonnet at the carbs to allow them to suck cold air but I think the problem is heat soak through the
manifold.
Ive got one of the super short manifolds thats about 1" thick - has anyone else had problems with these?
pic of carbs
cheers all
[Edited on 7/10/07 by 2b_pablo]
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DarrenW
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:13 PM |
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I had the exact same issue with mine in the first season. After a time cooling would run OK. It first manifested itself after a good motorway session
towards Stoneleigh and then 15mins or so in the entrance queue.
After a few weeks it just got worse and worse until i couldnt even go a few miles without it dying on me. I tried al sorts of new holes and vents but
no joy.
It turned out to be electronic ignition amplifier breaking down.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:18 PM |
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Could be unlikely to be heat soak -- weber are insulated from the manifold.by the O ring mounting.
Question (1) is he fuel tank properly vented -- ie if it isn't vented you get a partial vacuum in the tank stoping the flow.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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DavidM
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:23 PM |
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I had that problem with mine a couple of times, although not running webers.
First time it was a partial blockage in the float chamber needle valve. Second time it was an airlock in an inline fuel filter. So my money would be
on fuel starvation.
David
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DarrenW
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:25 PM |
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As soon as it fails next time check to see if you have a good spark (and check it again if the issues gets worse after a few weeks). I was in total
denial that it was ignition trouble but it turned out to be the brand new intermotor amp i used. Partly my fault for mounting it on a plastic panel
rather than something heatsink alike.
Maybe it depends what your ignition is - i didnt recognise the module in the pic.
Could coil be suffering? Ive heard they can be a pain when they start to fail and overheat.
Ive also had the central carbon pin in dizzy cap completely wear away (only spring left) withing 1000 miles. Also heard some rotor arms have internal
resistance and can stop passing current if they fail.
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jacko
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:35 PM |
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in line fuel filter blocking ? this is what happened to mine
Jacko
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:37 PM |
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to answer your Qs
bestek ignition and the fuel tank doesnt seem to be vented
First time it happened was at start of aug, then today so I dont think its something thats breaking down as its done maybe a couple of hundred miles
since.
Also checked the fuel filter just before the FPR and it was full of fuel
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DarrenW
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:42 PM |
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I had a odd blockage in my inline fuel filter (one of those opaque plastic ones). Visually it looked perfect, however when i removed when servicing
engine the smaller inlet pipe was almost totally blocked, just couldnt see it until the fuel hose was pulled off.
I ended up sticking a much larger one in line (Halfords), i posted the part number in maintenance section approx March / April.
It cured the fact that very occasionally under hard acceleration up long incline it would start to stutter but never cut out (maybe didnt get quite
bad enough).
Dont some electric fuel pupms have a little strainer inside? i seem to remember Mooky had a problem at a trackday in which some sealant was getting
pulled out of the tank into the filter, made the car run quite rough until cleaned out.
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:45 PM |
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I think your maybe in the right ballpark Darren, Ill pull all the pipes off and check them out.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 07:56 PM |
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Mine is a plastic tank. i had to use hole saw to cut fuel levl sender hole Took care with vac cleaner etc to avoid swarfe but it was a tiny amount
that eventually found its way down the fuel lines. Ive also know people have issues when theyve used not fully fuel proof sealant for the sender etc.
It can take a while to break down but tiny bits can get through.
fingers crossed you find the culprit.
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caber
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 08:42 PM |
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Your fuel line vanishes over the top of the rocker cover. If that means you have your fuel filter, regulator or pipework on the exhaust side I would
move it over to the inlet side. The heat off the exhaust can cause vapour locks in the fuel lines anywhere. It can also cook the rubber of the fuel
lines causing blockages.
The ignition system can also mis behave when warmed up particularly electronic bits as they get older, or are new and dodgy! You get expansion and
solder joints that are bad open up and close up again when things get cooler. These problems are always a PITA to track down, I have this happen on
one of my old Land Rovers and having now changed all the ignition and all the fuel lines and routing it still happens. The collected wisdom puts this
down to the greater propensity for "modern" unleaded fuels to evaporate as the additives are more volatile than petrol on its own so the
basic thermal design of older engines is just unsuitable.
Caber
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cossiebri
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 09:09 PM |
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A friend of mine had the same problem you describe in his 2.1 pinto'd rs2000,we tried everything you have. It turned out to be the
't' piece from the fuel pump to the carbs (it's the same one as in the photo) went to the bay of E and ordered the proper t piece
union set for a tenner,problem solved
If it doesn't fit MODIFY it!!
Cheers BriF
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 09:29 PM |
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pretty sure Ive found the problem.
pulled the fuel filter and cut it open to find this:
Looks like a nice selection of sealants. Looks like a tank flush is on the cards
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 09:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by caber
Your fuel line vanishes over the top of the rocker cover.
It just looks that way mate, the FPR is on the inlet side. pic below 
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/paulmckernon/kitcar/catchtank/Photo00018.jpg
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DarrenW
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 08:15 AM |
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Looks like you may have sussed it. Well done. Its surprising how many people have had this problem. Ive heard it may have something to do with a good
bead of sealant being applied which is then sqidged down by whatever its supposed to be sealing. The bead gets thin around the inside and eventually
breaks off, allowing it to be partially dissolved and broken down in the fuel intil it can be pulled through the lines.
A neighbour with a vintage car had a similar problem but he used more fuel resistant sealant, the bits blocked the pipe from the tank but didnt get
sucked through - even harder to diagnose. When stood i think they moved away from the pipe and allowed him to be able to fire up, then after a few
miles would block it again.
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 08:22 AM |
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Im torn if I should pull the tank out and clean it out and reseal everything or just change the filter every couple of weeks and let it all come
through.
Think Ill pull the lot out just to be sure. Hateful being stranded at the side of the motorway waiting for a tow
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DarrenW
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 08:54 AM |
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Id be tempted to say pull it all out and flush but thats too easy from my side of the keyboard.
Only other suggestion may be to fit the largest clearest plastic fuel filter just after the tank and keep an eye on it. Looks like you have caught a
load of the blue stuff already - can you approximate if this is all of it or not?
Maybe just before fitting a new filter at the back you could leave tank in situ and run fuel through into a tank on the floor. Just wondering if you
could rig up a spray bottle with a flexi pipe to get in where the fuel sender is and wash it about a bit. Hopefully the fuel that is washed through
could be filtered and re-used.
The filter i used last time was a Champion L101 from Halfords - £4.79. Largest clear(ish) type i could find when i went through the rack.
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 09:00 AM |
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aye can buy 10 cheap filters off ebay for a tenner so could try and run it all through but prob will come if a big bit gets into the pipe and wont
suck through (might catch at the inlet to the fuel filter as its narrower) then Im in trouble
my tank isnt too bad to remove (I think lol) so I might just pull it out make sure I get all the crap. was thinking of pulling the pipe off the FPR
and turning the pump on to pump all the fuel out (3/4 tank) into a jerry can then reuse later.
Ive my sender sealed with sikaflex type stuff so it will be fun to remove
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 09:00 AM |
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oh yeah I counted 3 types of sealant in there, the blue stuff, white stuff and red stuff
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02GF74
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 09:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
unlikely to be heat soak -- weber are insulated from the manifold.by the O ring mounting.
yep - weber/delorto have 0-ring and insulated spacer - the only path for heat would be via the bolts.
also bear in mind that as fuel is evaporated, it absobs heat so usually the carbsw are quite cool - grab the dash pot cover of an SU when you get an
opportunity to see.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 09:24 AM |
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Sikaflex can be a bugger to pursuade to let go. Only way at first is mechanical cutting. Once you have most of it off i think acetone will dissolve
and remove it. Hard part will be avoiding dropping more bits in the tank (probs easier if you are taking tank out).
Ive certainly had sucess using acetone to clean off Wurth bond and seal which is basically polyurethane adhesive so should work on sikaflex. Most
chemists will see acetone in small bottles for pennies. Nail varnish remover used to used acetone but most are now acetone free.
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 09:31 AM |
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will be a stanley knife affair methinks
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