chrsgrain
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 05:20 PM |
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C20XE advice needed - not running...
Hi all,
Need some help!
Out for a drive yesterday, just pulling into a petrol station when the thing just died - felt like it stalled really. Now it won't start. Have
got spark (maybe a bit weak??) and fuel....
Also - from the crankcase breather (all 3 of them) there is 'foamy' oil - now before everyone says head gasket - there is no water oil
mixing in the header tank, and the oil in the rest of the cam cover is normal, as is oil in the sump.... but there does appear to be a bit of oil in
the inlet manifold....
Anyone got any ideas??? Its a completely standard red top engine, with no funny bits at all (except a smaller air box to make it fit under the
bonnet). If no ideas, then any suggestions of a good vauxhall specialist in the Southampton area - preferably one who will visit!!
Thanks guys - most annoyed at the moment!
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 05:47 PM |
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Does the engine sound to be turning over fast enough?
I've just been out and bought a new battery as the XE wasn't turning over fast enough for it to catch and start, maybe worth trying the
jump leads off another car.
Also when I bought mine there was some damage to the crank position sencor plug, i'm not sure if it was sparking or not when it was like that
but it sure as hell wouldn't fire.
Is it an engine with a dizzy or a coil pack?
If its the standard inlet manifold I think there was a bit of manky rubbish in the bottom of mine, but it had been stood for quite a while, I
dont' think the shape of it helps either.
also you weren't going to the petrol station because you were desperately running out of fuel were you? it might have picked up some rubbish in
the fuel line, or if air has got in there's that little air vent on the fuel rail if its the standard injection.
[Edited on 10/2/08 by MkIndy7]
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 06:07 PM |
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Good thought - thanks...
Spinning nicely, no obvious damage to the crank position sensor. Took the air box off, and theres a load of this foamy oil gunk in the throttle body
- I wonder if this has got into the injectors or something - I didn't do the SBD cam breather mod, which could explain the oil in the inlet
manifold - is that it do you guys reckon??
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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cossiebri
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 06:23 PM |
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could try these people, meant to be very good+ they're local
Linky
If it doesn't fit MODIFY it!!
Cheers BriF
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 06:59 PM |
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I'm not sure how the SBD cam mod effects a RWD car,
Mines a FWD and it was hunting and the engine was revving strangely, it just wouldn't settle down to low rev's when in gear, if say a
speed camera was coming up and you let the engine rev's die down in 4th and roll upto the camera it would start hunting and really joulting the
car.
Either doing the cam mod cured it, or possibly having removed plenty of hoses and the air box it could have been a fault with them.
Is it worth pulling the injectors out of the manifold and spreying them into individual plastic cups, that would prove the ECU is fireing them, that
fuel is there, and that they all spray correctly, I don't think its too hard of a job to do after removing the air box but it could save you
alot of time or highlight any problems in one.
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blakep82
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 07:17 PM |
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is it possible the cam belt may have jumped a few teeth somewhere (i heard of citroen engines doing this without damaging the engine) not sure how
you'd get foamy oil in the intake though...
________________________
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 08:56 PM |
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Thanks guys...
The cam belt looks OK, the tensioner is working and the belt nice and tight. I'll try the injectors individually as suggested - also I'll
take everything off and clean it up, then do the SBD mod. If that doesn't work I'll go to Regal and see what they can do!
Thanks
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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blakep82
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 09:03 PM |
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whats the sbd mod?
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 09:04 PM |
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Yep you are right on the cam cover venting mod. It will ingest a fair bit of oil if you don't do this. Not usually enough to cause problems but
enough to make the inlet manifold look a bit oily inside.
As for the cutting out, check it all again. Do you have a spark, definitely, and do you DEFINITELY have fuel, i.e. if you poke the pin in on the fuel
rail it should spray out pretty fiercely!
If you do, then unless the timing is a mile out it will start.
What injection are you running, what ecu and what type of inlet?
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 09:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
whats the sbd mod?
basically chop out most of the baffling and steel wool in the top of the cam cover. Its designed to be transverse mounted and under vacuum in the std
road car, and in most rwd conversions it is neither, and usually ends up putting oil into the inlet manifold.
If you need detail on how to do it I can email you a drawing
[Edited on 10/2/08 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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blakep82
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 09:24 PM |
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is it the same on the ecotec? haven't noticed any baffling on the cam cover on the ecotec. but then i haven't looked i guess.
i did notice a hole for a breather on my cam cover, and coming out the bottom of the engine (next to the dip stick) another tube full of crusty oil.
can i just put a tube joining the 2? think i saw a pic on SBDs site showing that done
________________________
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 09:28 PM |
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tube by the dipstick should go to the big port on the cam cover, and then there should be 2 other ports that go to the inlet manifold.
these are normally re-routed to a catch tank etc.
no idea on ecotec but guess it has the same in the top of the cover
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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blakep82
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 09:31 PM |
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top cover looks different to the xe, but from what you say, sounds exactly the same 
cheers fella!
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 09:44 PM |
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If it is, then you need to take it off, turn it upside down, unscrew all the phillips head screws in there and remove the plate, carefully clean all
the sealant away, then cut the plate down so it just baffles the area near to the breather pipe, like this:
sbd breather mod link
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 10:51 PM |
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I think I must have seen it on a different site, where you just drill holes in the plate.
Maybe the holes are suficient for FWD installs and most of the plate needs removing for RWD installs.
Where NSDEV say's that under vaccume in FWD applications that is sucks oil into the inlet, that would ring true as there would be maximum vacume
when you ease off (for the speed camera example in my description).
Again as said, check the basics and no doubt something will become obvious.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 11:23 PM |
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its easier to be sure that no crap gets into the engine if you just remove it, drilling will leave bits inside the top bit that will drop out later
on.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 11/2/08 at 12:25 PM |
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Thanks guys...
I'm pretty sure there is fuel (plugs smell of petrol and were a bit wet) but I'll try poking the fuel rail - I'll have to find out
where!
I will do the SBD mod as well, now that everything is apart, should have done it to being with really.
Nat - everything is completely standard! ECU, induction the works - only change is a 'powercap' instead of the standard air box, just to
get it under the bonnet.
Thanks
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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NS Dev
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| posted on 11/2/08 at 11:35 PM |
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hmmm, tricky, take it you filled up with fuel before trying to restart it? It WAS definitely petrol you put in wasn't it??
Only ask because we did a huge fault finding excercise on my mates car only to find he'd put some diesel in it, not enough to really smell when
mixed with the petrol in there but enough for it not to start!
Next, check all your connections on the injection loom, particularly the airflow meter.
Do you definitely have sparks at the plugs not just on the king lead? again worth a check just in case the rotor arm has dropped to bits.
Unfortunately you really need to keep doing the fault finding, because often the "experts" are not better at it than you, but much more
expensive, though i know the feeling of wanting to hand it over to somebody else!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 12/2/08 at 09:11 AM |
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Thanks for that - found the receipt for the petrol (which was petrol - good thought though).. what I can't get is why there is spark and fuel
but no bang!
Will keep trying I guess.... 
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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NS Dev
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| posted on 12/2/08 at 01:35 PM |
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I'm struggling for ideas without looking at it.
To rule out the obvious you should always do a compression check, but then that would not make sense as a failure given your description of events,
and catastrophic failure of anything on an XE is pretty rare, especially at the revs that the std ecu will allow.
Things I would try:
Swap the airflow meter for a known good one. Try and find someone locally with a running car with one in. If you struggle, let me know and I will post
one to you, you can try it, and either send it back or not depending on the result.
Under the inlet manifold, disconnect and plug the idle air control valve hose between the manifold and valve. It won't idle properly then but
should start, whereas if the valve is stuck upen it may be so lean it won't start at all (but this is very doubtful)
VERY DOUBTFUL THIS ONE but check your cam timing roughly with reference to TDC on no1 cyl (rod etc down the plug hole to find tdc, only roughly will
do), its not completely unknown for the keyway on the bottom timing pulley to shear but keep driving after its moved a bit. Very unlikely though but
at least if you check from first principles then you know its right.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 12/2/08 at 01:37 PM |
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Another daft one but I saw it a few months ago on a cavalier that would not start but all else was ok, was a blocked exhaust. If the silencer has
collapsed internally its possible, so check the exhaust is all clear.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 12/2/08 at 03:26 PM |
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Thanks for that Nat....
Will disconnect the idle valve, and if that doesn't work I might see if I can borrow an air flow meter....
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 12/2/08 at 07:13 PM |
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The engine will start and run without the Airflow meter.
I forgot to re-conect it once and wondered why it was as jerky as hell, it was too responsive it was off like a rocket with the slightest touch of the
pedal!.
Just a thought to test the Crank position sencor, does the rpm display show when cranking?
Did you try pressing the bleed on the fuel rail, or fireing the injectors into something, being sequential injection should one be blocked or not
working it could cause more problems thab usual maybe?.
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 10:54 AM |
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys....
No luck with the idle valve disconnected, ditto with the air flow meter. Timing is spot on, injectors are all firing well (impressive seeing all that
fuel atomised!) - but - think might have found it - robocar and chippy at the New Forrest meet yesterday suggested the rotor arm / dizzy, and they are
both knackered - new ones on the way. Do have a spark, but with the state of the dizzy I expect its not surviving compression... heres hoping, thanks
for all the help so far!
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 14/2/08 at 08:41 AM |
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Rotor arm and dizzy changed, still nothing! Start a wire by wire continuity test today... bugger again...
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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