graememk
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| posted on 21/2/08 at 11:32 PM |
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zzr 1100
any good for bec ?
pro ?
cons ?
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coozer
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 08:31 AM |
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Cheap, loud, fast, well up to it...
Ask the man who knows. Mr. Guinness?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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r1_pete
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 09:20 AM |
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That motor is almost bullet proof, the fastest thing on two wheels for much of the 90's, powerfull, torquey, relliable.
But remember its no spring chicken anymore so check milage if you can and wear. Also there are two power specs, carb tops identify - flat top = full
power, dimpled top = restricted, just swap the tops for full power.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 09:57 AM |
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Im sure Mike will be along soon. His car certainly seems to be a bit of a tool. He's had a couple of teething problems but i dont think they
were down to the engine itself - maybe the ancilliaries and connecting bits.
I seem to think there is a later gearbox to go for as earlier ones are prone to weakness (similar to ZX9?????? E type box is it?)
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 10:40 AM |
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Been looking at a ZX12 lump for my car maybe but wonder how you overcome the following things?
engine cradle - do you just fab one up or can you buy one thats close then make it fit?
prop adapter - easily available?
prop itself - can you use the likes of a sierra full prop cut at the engine end and a suitable end put on?
sorry for the Qs didnt want to start another thread.
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if it aint broke... pull it off and upgrade it!
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Trems
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 03:00 PM |
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Excuse my ignorance but i am totally new to all this and am keen to put a bike engine in my Avon project!
Obviously with a car engine you just fab up the mounts so that it sits with the crank centreline in line with the diff (typically two/three mounts and
possibly a brace or two) is it the same game with the bike engine, i have heard people talk about 'cradles' is this to replicate the
support the engine as it is in the bike?
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 03:08 PM |
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you cant line straight to the diff like a ar engine can so you use a 2 piece propshaft with a UJ in the middle.
the cradle is an engine mount really but it needs secured at the top too as its a lot more vertical than a car engine and box.
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if it aint broke... pull it off and upgrade it!
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Trems
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 03:39 PM |
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And what about transferring the drive from the sprocket with is on the transverse axis to the diff input which is on the longitudinal axis?
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 03:41 PM |
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you use a new piece of metal that adapts the sprocket output to a prop connection. About £90 ish.
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if it aint broke... pull it off and upgrade it!
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Guinness
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| posted on 22/2/08 at 10:34 PM |
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I chose the ZZR1100 after reading a review of a Dax Rush in one of the magazines. Still got it on a tif somewhere! Anyway, they said it had a good
wide power band, decent gear change and a useable clutch.
The only experience I'd ever had of a Seven was a mates well sorted VX powered Caterham, so I knew what ever I built would have to have legs on
it if I was to keep up!
Then I went out as a passenger for a few laps in MK's purple demo car at Donington show one year. That had a blade engine in it, and although I
loved the initial acceleration and the sequential gearbox, it was lacking a little at the top end. We were fast into the corners, but were getting
passed by a Sierra Cossie, so I decided that the extra displacement of the ZZR over the blade (200cc) was in fact nearly 25% bigger was what I
needed!
I got my original engine, carbs, loom, cdi, coils and clocks for £750 I think. That was a few years back though, when blades, ZX9R's and
R1's were over a grand.
Fitting the engine was OK, but MK hadn't done one before, so they didn't have a template. Cue wife driving the engine down to MK a week
before it was due to be collected!
The sump is pretty deep, see Indybird and my threads on this. But the GPZ900 sump is almost a straight swap and about 50-75mm shallower.
MK managed to get mine in under an Indy bonnet with a bulge bonnet with room enough for a decent air filter.
After that, I had to get a splinded adaptor for the drive. MK supplied one, but it was for a ZX9, which didn't fit. Cue me posting the
redundant sprocket down to them, and them making a custom one for me for the same price.
Also bear in mind that no-one has off the shelf exhaust manifolds like they do for blades, busa's etc, so there is a bit more expense for a
custom made manifold. I got a local company, AAS to make me an almost equal length 4-2-1 system for £300 or £400. (Which IMHO sounds brilliant, and
feels like it flows brilliantly, and looks cool!)
It passed it's pre-SVA "MOT" emissions, being on carbs it's not too strict. Failed at SVA, but then passed at the re-test,
after leaning out the idle screws a bit. No CAT / power commander / air bleed system for a ZZR, so a bit of a saving there.
History wise, the first engine I got from Colin didn't have a second gear, or rather it wouldn't stay in gear. Passed SVA with it and
racked up about 1,000 miles on that engine, until one day an oil hose split (to the cooler) (LESSON LEARNED - DON'T RE-USE 10 YEAR OLD RUBBER
HOSES!). After I replaced the hoses, re-filled the oil it still drove for another 500 miles, until it wouldn't stay in 1st or 3rd anymore, so I
retired that engine.
Second engine came from ebay for a much more reasonable £250 (turned out to be nicked though!). Anyway that one lasted about 1,000 miles until the
big end (no 3) went. Cue sound of a lump hammer in a biscuit tin.
This is apparently a common failure even when in a bike, let alone when installed longitudinally in a BEC. When I stripped the engine down, I found
an inch long length of white cable tie blocking an oil way. I can only assume that some previous owner had let it get in the engine at some point and
it had worked it's way round. (I know it wasn't one of mine, cause it was white, and being properly anal I only ever use black ones!)
So the next engine came from a breakers in Nantwich? or somewhere, again for a very reasonable £250. Touch wood this one is a keeper! It's
done another couple of thousand miles and several trackdays.
Saying that I've just missed out on buying another spare engine on the bay for £200!
Better to treat them as disposable as a full gasket set is £150! So a re-build is un-economic.
So, in summary, you get what you pay for. £200 buys you a ten year old 1100cc bike engine on carbs which put out 140bhp (plus) in the original bike.
In a car, with a dynojet kit and a free flow exhaust it might do 160bhp, with all the inherent risks of running an old engine. £2000 will buy you a
new ZX14 engine on FI with 10 miles on the clock.
I chose the former, cause it is low cost builders. At the moment, I have 7 lives left before I break even on a ZZR1400!
On the road I can easily keep up with R1 powered cars, out gun x-flow and pinto powered cars. I also managed to embarrass a new Caterham CSR260 on
one blat. Admittedly he was two up (had his wife in the car) but I could out brake him into corners and keep up accelerating out of them. I also
managed a faster pace across the moors cause he was grinding his dry sump on the crown of the road!
Sorry if I've gone on a bit, but it is my pet / specialist subject! If you need any help with the install, let me know! If you want a
passenger ride first, then we can meet up at the first show of the year?
HTH
Cheers
Mike
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