woodster
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 08:23 PM |
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Bikers fight back
Bikers fuel protest the boys in leather kick ass 
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1052488_chaos_fear_in_fuel_demo
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 08:38 PM |
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beginning of the end for gordo,s police state?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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mr henderson
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 08:39 PM |
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Great, a huge number of innocent people seriously inconvenienced, and not a scrap pf difference to the situation.
John
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woodster
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 08:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Great, a huge number of innocent people seriously inconvenienced, and not a scrap pf difference to the situation.
John
and you would do what ???..... nothing??
.... Gordon Clown the man who invented U turns may think capping the tax maybe a good idea
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chrisg
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 08:58 PM |
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I quite enjoyed the poll tax riots, maybe it's time to find the old balaclava out?
If we were French there would be piles of burning debris through out the land, but, and I hesitate to say this, but we don't have the moral
fibre any more - basically we'll stand for anything in this country these days. Speed cameras were the thin end of the wedge and if you stand up
to anything you're labelled as a "granny killing speeder" or you're "trying to destroy the environment".
The PC brigade have won, get used to it.
/rant
cheers
The opressed masses
(To any solicitors/people who have problems with irony, I was not personally involved in the poll tax riots nor do I condone or encourage rioting or
any form of civil disobedience, contents may settle during transit etc)
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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woodster
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 09:05 PM |
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its going to be big its in Wigantoday
http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Bikers-will-ride-to-protest.4149183.jp
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Ricks-9r
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 09:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
quote:
Originally posted by Mr henderson
Great, a huge number of innocent people seriously inconvenienced, and not a scrap pf difference to the situation.
John
well boo hoo to them Mugs who don't mind paying through the nose for fuel ,Tax ,fags booze ,food ,etc ,but the rest of us DO give a Shit about
over priced commodities in this Country ,So good on the Fella Browns days are Numbered ,Hopefully
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woodster
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 09:28 PM |
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the people in power in goverment don't give a sh1t.. my local MP Ruth Kelly doesn't pay council tax she claims food, morgage, travel cost,
child care, on expenses... how would she know how I live .. the worlds a different place when you don't have to save for that new kitchen on
your second home you just get joe public to pay 
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 09:37 PM |
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well, it seems that oil is rising in price partially due to an investor bubble, similar to the housing bubble, so maybe prices will fall in time.
However, i still believe that oil is a bad habit that needs kicking. We are slaves to OPEC, and the sooner as we manage to kick oil, the better.
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 4/6/08 at 11:30 PM |
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It is'nt the tax that's made the fuel so expensive though is it? At 68p per litre it's not much over half the cost, a couple of
years ago it was more like 3/4 of the cost so as a percentage of the total price the tax has gone down.
I'm not saying the high tax that we pay on fuel is a good thing but it is'nt the reason behind the current high prices.
Of course the VAT has increased as a pecentage with the fuel & a lot has been made for the goverment there.
Just as big a problem is not how much tax we pay but how it's spent/wasted!
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D Beddows
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 07:39 AM |
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That's what p*sses me off the most..... we can't do anything about the cost of oil and it's a fact of life that if the government
didn't get the money from fuel duty they'd just take it off you somewhere else........ but the vast sums of extra money they get from VAT
as the price of fuel goes up is just taking the p*ss especially as it's our money which is supposedly to be spent for the country's
benefit yet we'll almost certainly never see any actual benefit from it
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 08:12 AM |
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Nice little statistic on the mornign financial news today....
as a nation we fork out over 44Bn pounds a year to the government to own a car, once you add up all teh different duties we pay...
the total government investment in ALL forms of transport for the UK is 8Bn....
No wonder public transport is a joke and our roads are so crap!
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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02GF74
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 08:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
I quite enjoyed the poll tax riots, maybe it's time to find the old balaclava out?
But we still ended up with the council (aka poll) tax, other than one or two rioters ending up with a TV or video from Dixons, the end result was
what?
Bottom line is fuel: leccy, gas and petrol is going up in price and unless you nuke India and China, is not going to go down.
The rising cost of fule is not due to the tax but cost of the raw material.
I cannot see this government lowering the tax.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 09:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Great, a huge number of innocent people seriously inconvenienced, and not a scrap pf difference to the situation.
John
and you would do what ???..... nothing??
.... Gordon Clown the man who invented U turns may think capping the tax maybe a good idea
Perhaps you would like to explain how a large number of people blocking the roads in Manchester etc is going to have any effect whatsoever in
Whitehall and Westminster. The only people who are ever inconvenienced by these ridiculous protests are people who have no power whatsoever to do
anything about it.
No, I don't have an alternative suggestion, but if there is a solution it lies in the direction of actually affecting the people who have the
power to do something about it, and those people are not trying to drive around Manchester
John
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D Beddows
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 09:21 AM |
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I'm guessing here that you didn't actually have first hand experience of poll tax?? Council tax is just a more expensive version of rates
which every household paid already anyway, where as poll tax had to be paid by every individual regardless of whether they owned a house/rented a
house/lived with their parents/lived in a tent etc etc and I shudder just thinking back to it  .
I don't think we're saying that the government is responsible for the rising cost of fuel, just that they're getting a huge amount
of extra money as it goes up because VAT is a percentage tax rather than a fixed tax and it will just disappear somewhere and the country will never
see the benefit.......
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Jubal
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 09:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr hendersonPerhaps you would like to explain how a large number of people blocking the roads in Manchester etc is
going to have any effect whatsoever in Whitehall and Westminster. The only people who are ever inconvenienced by these ridiculous protests are people
who have no power whatsoever to do anything about it.
No, I don't have an alternative suggestion, but if there is a solution it lies in the direction of actually affecting the people who have the
power to do something about it, and those people are not trying to drive around Manchester
We actually had to work round this this morning. Just set off earlier as the start time was well publicised. Even after having to get up early
I'm still a supporter. In this country we do far to much whining and not enough doing. It's great to see someone organise something about
an issue that affects us all.
I'm sure we'd all like to see trucks blocking Downing St but this isn't France and I'm glad. These protests as they stand are
scary enough for a government already on the back foot.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 09:39 AM |
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How long before they invoke the 'prevention of terrorism umbrella' and arrest them all?
I read the other day how one local authority was using the prevention of terrorism laws to enable them to spy on suspected income support
fraudsters!
Just another example of how we have gone so far wrong...
In many ways this country is becoming like America in the 70s, only it's "terrorists under the bed" rather than
"Reds".....
whats this got to do with fuel protests? not a lot until the goverment start acting on it by arresting people rather than trying to resolve the cause
of the issue...
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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woodster
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 12:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by woodster
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Great, a huge number of innocent people seriously inconvenienced, and not a scrap pf difference to the situation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest
protest can work sitting at home doing nothing changes bugger all
and you would do what ???..... nothing??
.... Gordon Clown the man who invented U turns may think capping the tax maybe a good idea
Perhaps you would like to explain how a large number of people blocking the roads in Manchester etc is going to have any effect whatsoever in
Whitehall and Westminster. The only people who are ever inconvenienced by these ridiculous protests are people who have no power whatsoever to do
anything about it.
No, I don't have an alternative suggestion, but if there is a solution it lies in the direction of actually affecting the people who have the
power to do something about it, and those people are not trying to drive around Manchester
John
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mr henderson
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 12:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
quote:
Originally posted by mr hendersonPerhaps you would like to explain how a large number of people blocking the roads in Manchester etc is
going to have any effect whatsoever in Whitehall and Westminster. The only people who are ever inconvenienced by these ridiculous protests are people
who have no power whatsoever to do anything about it.
No, I don't have an alternative suggestion, but if there is a solution it lies in the direction of actually affecting the people who have the
power to do something about it, and those people are not trying to drive around Manchester
We actually had to work round this this morning. Just set off earlier as the start time was well publicised. Even after having to get up early
I'm still a supporter. In this country we do far to much whining and not enough doing. It's great to see someone organise something about
an issue that affects us all.
I'm sure we'd all like to see trucks blocking Downing St but this isn't France and I'm glad. These protests as they stand are
scary enough for a government already on the back foot.
No one, least of all me, is saying that those people who feel that the government could do something about fuel prices should 'do something
about it'. What I am saying is, have a go at the people who can do something about it, not the poor innocent motorists in Manchester.
As for it frighening the government? Don't make me laugh! A few traffic jams around Manchester, yeah, very frightening I'm sure!
John
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MikeR
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 12:44 PM |
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actually its very frightening ..... think about it, you've got (a modern form of) revolt going on. You're own people are turning against
you.
And this isn't 1 or 2 loonies, this is a large number of people who are supported by an even larger number.
Last week it was in wales and london, this week Manchester. What needs to happen now is one of two things.
1) nothing (gov. happy)
2) big protest in another major urban area, Birmingham for example. This will reinforce the view to the gov. that they have a major problem. After
brum .... then the risk is we all join in and 'stop the country'. This has a larger impact and on and on.
Basically we're heading down a long and winding path at the moment with one of two outcomes,
a) all out total world war for oil & the decimation of the human race & planet
b) alternative power and the delayed decimation of the planet and then human race.
Put it another way, as much as i want kids i do wonder what legacy we're going to leave them or their grandchildren.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 01:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
actually its very frightening ..... think about it, you've got (a modern form of) revolt going on. You're own people are turning against
you.
That's just my point, it isn't frightening at all. Nor is it a revolt. People have always disagreed with the government, but that
hasn't been a successful revolutiion since the Roundheads, and they only won because they had an army and were using it, not blocking roads.
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smart51
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 02:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Basically we're heading down a long and winding path at the moment with one of two outcomes,
a) all out total world war for oil & the decimation of the human race & planet
b) alternative power and the delayed decimation of the planet and then human race.
Given that the oil industry expects world production of fuel oil to peak in the next 3 - 5 years plus the ever growing demand of the new
industrialising countries, the above opinion is probably what will drive people towards fuel efficiency, rather than climate change.
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woodster
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 02:24 PM |
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Bikers cheered by car drivers .. could be people have had enough
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4071480.ece
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mr henderson
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 02:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
Bikers cheered by car drivers .. could be people have had enough
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4071480.ece
From that article-
"Salford garage owner, said: “I think it’s brilliant. It’s a pity they’re not blocking off Downing Street and London too.”
Absoutely. That might at least have got noticed, wouldn't have done anything, but would have got noticed.
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MikeR
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 02:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
actually its very frightening ..... think about it, you've got (a modern form of) revolt going on. You're own people are turning against
you.
That's just my point, it isn't frightening at all. Nor is it a revolt. People have always disagreed with the government, but that
hasn't been a successful revolutiion since the Roundheads, and they only won because they had an army and were using it, not blocking roads.
Ah, i'm not making my point. We are a nation that does not protest. We moan, we groan and generally get on with it. The fact that people can be
inconvieneinced by this and still not complain means there is something large underfoot. From a Gov. perspective that should be frightening. The fact
the Gov. can't really stop or influence this is frightening (yes they can lower tax but will then have to raise it on something else eg food or
alcohol & that won't stop the basic oil price rising). Plus this isn't a national campagne this is grass roots and local.
Here's a little side story, no idea if its true or not and can't verify it but its interesting. Friend of a friend was one of the
organisers of the last fuel protest. The story is, he quickly backed down as he got a visit from some men in suits late one evening.
Now this could be complete bull (the most likely option). It could be that the protest was taking too much time so he backed down and people invented
the story to stir up feeling, it could be true and the suits could be from the gov. or the oil companies. It could be that he couldn't buy fuel
in town and realised that he needed fuel after the protest and backed down.
What ever, the last protests where national, where effective and fell apart when the national organisation stopped. These protests are apparently
groups of like minded people being inspired by others. Much harder to co-ordinate nationally but even harder to stop, and worryingly much easier to
blame for other things (which i'm going to stop now before i get a knock on the door and a suited man karts me away for suggesting things).
There are tipping points with everything. The next three to six months have every chance of being a major tipping point in this country - if only
cause we change gov.
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