MikeR
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 12:46 PM |
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Cheep Transaxle
I've been thinking about transaxle's again and something I saw on ebay a while ago came back to me.
It seems a mid engined car was built that used a ford 5 speed box with a shortened tailshaft (manufacturer began with a M, Mallory??).
Got an idea that you could take a 5 speed bellhousing and box, chop off the tailshaft and mount a flange that couples directly to a diff.
Now the way i see it this has the following problems,
* need to make an oil seal in the box
* need to chop & attach a flange
* need to couple the diff to the box
* need to make the coupling able to hand small changes in alignment as they probably won't be perfectly aligned.
Does this seem possible or am I dreaming up another wild idea?
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GO
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 01:10 PM |
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the coupling of the diff and box shouldnt causing any alignment problems. Just mount the diff on flexi mounts instead of solid (slight sacrifice
there) but that way the diff will move with the box so it should stay aligned.
Intriguing idea but I've no idea if its feasible otherwise!
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cymtriks
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 01:17 PM |
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Possible...
From what you say I think this would result in the gearbox between the dif and engine as opposed to the usual transaxle arrangement of putting the
gears behind the diff. This would add 10 to 12 inches to the wheel base. Can't see why it shouldn't work though.
Alternatively-
Audi transaxles are fairly cheap and can be connected to a wide range of 4, 5 and V6 engines from the VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda group. Bigger engines will
fit from this group and US V8s have been fitted with the usual adaptor plates and mods but it's rumored that the standard gearbox doesn't
like more than 250-300bhp in 2 wheel drive.
Why make it more complicated?
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Alan B
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 01:18 PM |
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Seems perfectly doable......with some machining.
Only downside is it will be a bit long from engine to axle centreline compared to say a volkie or hewland.......but, cheap spares, possible LSD
etc.....worth looking at for sure.
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MikeR
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 06:35 PM |
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People keep mentioning the audi transaxle, but what car does it come from? I thought all recent audi's have been either front wheel drive or 4
wheel drive with the engine at the front.
The only audi i knew with a transaxle was from about 1980ish.
Another advantage of this idea is that not only do you get cheep spares, but any ratio's in a type 9 will fit, straight cut, dog engagement,
sequential etc etc. (not that I can afford that mind you)
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Alan B
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 06:43 PM |
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Yes Mike they mean a FWD transaxle...they run north/south with the engine at the front...therefore an easy mid transplant.....
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 06:48 PM |
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when i was asking about transaxles a while ago someone was kind enough to post a BIG list of FWD longitudinal cars with transaxles. Included saab 900,
audi 80/90/100/4000/5000 plus many more...
a search for transaxle shouldn't provide too many results so it should be quite easy to find.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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violentblue
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| posted on 9/1/04 at 07:21 PM |
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the audi 5000, 5000t and porsche 924, 944 all used the same transaxle
in the case of the porsche the tranny was mounted at the back driving the rear wheels. on the audi it is bolted directly to the engine and drives the
front wheels.
on the audi this sets the engine quite far forward, so the mount the radiator beside the engine rather than in front of it.
there a re a number of audi boxes that would work nicely for longitudaly mounted mid engine application, but the 5000 and 5000t boxes (same) are
supposed to be able to take a lot of power
many lambo replicas use them bolted to v8's (I've even seen them bolted to a bmw v12)
a few pics of my other projects
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Sven
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| posted on 12/1/04 at 08:39 AM |
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Audi transaxle
I've been researching a replacement engine and transaxle for a Lotus Europa and I've found some interesting information about transaxles.
The mid-80's Audi Coupe used a transaxle with a longitudinal 5 cylinder engine. Here's some links that people may or may not find
interesting:
http://www.kitcentral.com/cgi-bin/showprogress.cgi?builderid=51&zoom=1051&startat=0
http://www.msu.edu/user/dupreer1/flyinghead/index.html
http://elektro.cmhnet.org/%7eaudi/01E/
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2453654958
http://www.msu.edu/user/dupreer1/flyinghead/index.html
FWIW, the wrecking yards sell the transmission anywhere in the range of $100-$500.
-Steve
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Sven
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| posted on 12/1/04 at 08:53 AM |
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VW
Hate to reply to my own msg because it shows how scatterbrained I am, but I also looked into VW transaxles and found this site:
http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm
You'll notice that they have adaptors for all kinds of engines front Mazda rotary to Toyota 4AGE (which I what I was looking for, for my 20V
silvertop).
-Steve
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TheGecko
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| posted on 12/1/04 at 12:24 PM |
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MikeR,
The idea has some merit, as Alan said it would be fairly long. Some years ago, I remember a company advertising in 'Kit Car' magazine (US
not UK) witha 'pseudo-transaxle' product. What they did was take a gearbox/diff combo, exactly as you describe. On to each side of the
diff, where the inner CV joint would normally go, there was a sprocket (possibly a double row one). From there, on each side, a chain (duplex?) ran
forward to a matching (or not, if you wanted to change ratios) sprocket, mounted somewhere in the vicinity of the bellhousing. The idea was that you
could use a (any?) common gearbox to suit your purposes (and engine) and 'convert' it into a transaxle. From memory there was a
fabricated subframe that kept everything aligned but the idea of pumping serious horsepower through even duplex chains gave me the willies. Yes, I
know the engine-gearbox link on an 8.2 litre FWD Eldorado is by duplex chain. It still gives me the willies 
Anyway, more grist for the mill perhaps.
Dominic
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MikeR
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 01:47 AM |
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I've been looking at the Audi haynes manuals today (ooops, now yesterday) and it does seem the easiest way to go.
Shame I've now rethought the plans and am examining the concept of a single seat mid engined car with the engine at the side of the driver. Bike
engines would just seem to fit so perfectly and balance my 80 kg's nicely as well.
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GTAddict
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 07:32 AM |
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Nice idea. If anyone remembers the Rover P6BS prototype, it used the Lamborghini type arrangement (I think) with the Rover/Buick 3.5/215 engine,
offset to the side. The car was a two plus one, with part of the rear seat being given up to package the engine.
Alec was a genius, but alas, people fear the unconventional. Rover canned a car which could have comprehensively blown the contemporary Porsche 911
into the weeds. *sigh*
Mark.
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bob
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 09:32 AM |
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Steve
Intersesting ebay link you put up,rebuilt transaxle $299 buy it now.The way things are going it could be £150 real money,might look at shipping
costs
Must admit after a quick look there are plenty of audi 80/100's going pretty cheap over here,but is there a perfect audi box ? i mean are they
all the same through the range apart from 4x4.
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MikeR
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 11:12 AM |
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hmmm, i wonder what the ratio's are for the audi boxes ....... i sense a google moment coming on
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MikeR
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 11:19 AM |
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Well it seems most are in the 3.5 to 3.7 range for first gear. The rest are spread out like most production cars. The current 1.8T 5speed TT has a 3.3
ratio first gear - but i suspect thats not a transaxle as its really a golf.
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 01:29 PM |
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i would previously have bet my left bollok that ALL TTs were 4wd, but recently many have said that there are some 2wd.
Surely its all S3 running gear, and arent those all 4wd?!
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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ned
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 01:48 PM |
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they are doing a cheap 2wd fwd version i understand. only a recent thing....
likewise i heard of a new v6 one to try and keep up with the porsches.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Simon
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 02:00 PM |
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Ned,
You're right about the V6 TT. TG tested it, and found that cos of the extra weight, it was no quicker. And it handled like a bag of poo.
Bear in mind this car was quite unstable at speed when it was first launched resulting in mechanical and aerodynamic changes under recall.
However, if (and it's a big if) I could ever persuade myself to use anything german in a car I was building, the tt could make quite a useful
donor (engine/box/drivsehafts?/uprights?/steering/seats/instruments/roll hoops etc etc)
ATB
Simon
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violentblue
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 02:06 PM |
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I'm rather fond of german cars
a few pics of my other projects
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andkilde
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 02:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by violentblue
I'm rather fond of german cars
I'm torn about them, on the one hand I had a Jetta that I thrashed mercilessly for 450K km I only ever had to change brakes, clutch, tires, and
one water pump -- would still be going if the rust hadn't got it.
On the other, had a BMW that nearly sent me to the poor house $1,000/week car that was -- complete bag of poo, fun to drive with a big six, rear drive
and all -- definitely not worth the heart/wallet-ache.
My real problem with the Germans is spelled MINI -- Issigonis must be doing reverse pinwheels in his grave, 2700lbs?!?, mutter, mumble...
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violentblue
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 02:40 PM |
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Yes I can understand your love/hate relationship. when they run they rung niely, something breaks and you have to wait on the part then end up paying
way more than you ought to.
My subaru is worse though, just for giggles I inquired toe dealership cost of changing my clutch (plan on doing it myself), and was rather shocked to
be given a price of $1000
I think I'd rather do it myself
a few pics of my other projects
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MikeR
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 04:41 PM |
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Totally off topic .....
enquire as to how much it costs to change the cam belt! I think its in the region of 600 quid!
Its not just cause you have to change two of the damned things, its the parts cost that really gets you. Oh, that and you've got to take the
front of the car off to get to the bits you need. Local mechanic was doing one for a mate.
The only saving was his rates where 1/2 to 2/3 dealer price.
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andkilde
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| posted on 13/1/04 at 05:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by violentblue
My subaru is worse though, just for giggles I inquired toe dealership cost of changing my clutch (plan on doing it myself), and was rather shocked to
be given a price of $1000
I think I'd rather do it myself
Yeah, when you see the video of the Subaru Rally Team guys changing out a tranny in 18 minutes you start to wonder where they come up with these
numbers. Sure, it is six specially trained technicians, but...
Also, FWIW, a timing belt job is a pain in the car (much easier on the bench) if you've found a mate to do it as a favour he's a VERY good
friend.
Cheers, Ted
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gaz_
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| posted on 23/2/04 at 11:08 AM |
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adapter plates
hello have some questions on audi transaxles.
does anyone know if there are any adapter plates available to fit other 4 cylinder engines other than vw/audi to the audi transaxle?
there seem to be plenty available for the old aircooled (beetle etc) transaxle, but cant find any for the audi?
or are they the same fitting?!!!
thanks,
Gareth
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