ceebmoj
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 12:50 PM |
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Composite chassis
This morning I saw a GTM on the way to work witch got me thinking about Composite chassis. Does any body have a link to the manufacture of a Composite
chassis GTM or other. There was thread in the three wheal section a while back but I cant find that now.
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djtom
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 01:15 PM |
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Westfield made a composite chassis car a few years ago. FW400 I think it was called. 400kg but OMG expensive.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 01:35 PM |
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Id rather like the idea of a monocoque carbon fibre chassis for my kit..... if i had the money! 
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 02:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
Id rather like the idea of a monocoque carbon fibre chassis for my kit..... if i had the money!
I guess that s what got me thinking the GTM is GRP so I assume it responsible to manufacture I will keep having a look for the GRP over fome trike
chassy that is out there
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Triggerhappy
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 03:11 PM |
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Send your drawings to these guy´s
http://www.atrgroup.it/
They have some experience.
Im from Sweden, so im escused...The Muppet drummer for president!!
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iank
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 04:45 PM |
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Think this is the thread you're talking about
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=94561
The link to the trimagnum grp over foam approach is here
http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.htm
Note there is some chassis under there, more of a big subframe really.
smart51's cabin scooter uses this method of construction, but also has a chassis. Lots of good information in his posts and photos.
[Edited on 14/10/09 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 05:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Think this is the thread you're talking about
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=94561
The link to the trimagnum grp over foam approach is here
http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.htm
Note there is some chassis under there, more of a big subframe really.
smart51's cabin scooter uses this method of construction, but also has a chassis. Lots of good information in his posts and photos.
[Edited on 14/10/09 by iank]
there was anothere 1 + 1 three wheeler that was all grp over foam with bonded in kevlar bulkheads
[Edited on 14/10/09 by ceebmoj]
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clairetoo
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 06:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
there was anothere 1 + 1 three wheeler that was all grp over foam with bonded in kevlar bulkheads
[Edited on 14/10/09 by ceebmoj]
Do you mean the TREV ? Linkydink
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 06:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Do you mean the TREV ? Linkydink
thanks alot that is exactly the one I was thinking about
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 06:50 PM |
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I've been reading about trev and have made some enquiries as to the cost for UK supply of the honeycomb grp material - no answer as yet.
What I have found though is this
Not sure if you'd get the strength, but if you gave it adequate skinning with carbon, kevlar or woven roving then a decent strength might be
achievable.
I had also been considering how to vaccuum bag the a monocoque using resin infusion - not only neater but I feel it would be stronger as well because
you'd have less risk of getting any air pockets trapped in there.
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 07:33 PM |
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nasty bob from the mid engen section
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=73075
has used a skined hunny come sections to pannel in parts of his chasy maby the product he used is apropreate
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 07:39 PM |
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also have you got any picture of how hard points are mounted to trev?
on old formula vauxall lotuses a hole is drilled and a aluum top hat inserted from both sides so tha you cant crush the center section.
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/10/09 at 08:08 PM |
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That's about it - ali bobbins and also in some placs a large ali spreader panel, as well as angle in the corners etc.
No details on Trev, but have a read of 'How to Build Motorcycle Engined Race Cars' and it hs some explanation, as well as Allan
Staniforths 'Race and Rally Car Source Book'. The first book is OK - not much explanation of actually building a cr but a decent bit of
starter info and plenty of ideas on how to do various things - it has a chapter on making a monocoque using honeycomb ali panels.
I have a distant plan to do something very similar but using the grp honeycomb/kevlar laminate along the same lines as Trev.
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 15/10/09 at 07:33 AM |
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as in this book?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=How+to+Build+Motorcycle+Engined+Race+Car&x=0&y=0
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StevieB
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| posted on 15/10/09 at 12:07 PM |
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That's the one.
It's OK, but there again I picked up my copy for £6 (brand new) from an autojumble.
I also managed to get hold of an original, unopened copy of High Speed, Low Cost for £25 from the same guy
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Theshed
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| posted on 15/10/09 at 02:37 PM |
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My car is made out of honeycombe. A few bad pics in my folder. If I ever did it again I would make jigs and have inserts placed beteen the sheets and
use laser cutting. I would also use solid bulkheads - or maybe just steel tube???
On the ther hand the locost shape might lend itself to 2 substantial side planks of honeycombe. I would go for 40mm 1/8" cell carbon/kevlar - no
need to paint it either!!
I got my sheets from Aim Composites - they were good to deal with and were happy to make sheets up in Kevlar/carbon. They would have put in inserts.
None of this was what you would call Lo Cost
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StevieB
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| posted on 15/10/09 at 04:52 PM |
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Right, just got my email quotation from Ayres (the company that does the stuff Trev is made from).
372 euros per sheet, which sounds quite a lot but by my figuring I reckon a single seater would be made from 3 sheets, so a monocoque single seater
chassis for £1k (plus the cost of laminating in carbon/kevlar).
Probably need to price it up using cheaper materials because it'd be a bloody shame to make something that epxensive to fin a fundemental flaw
in the design that needs changing (ie, a hole new chassi building).
Can you laminate ali panels with compsite materials successfully/strongly?
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 15/10/09 at 05:52 PM |
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what about the Nidaplast you posted about before it also come in a other
thickness as well
[Edited on 15/10/09 by ceebmoj]
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StevieB
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| posted on 15/10/09 at 06:00 PM |
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I'm just not sure how string the nidaplast would be compared to ali honeycomb.
I might try an experiment by buying some and a small quantity of carbon, kevlar, carbon/kevlar and woven roving and see what works.
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Theshed
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| posted on 15/10/09 at 09:09 PM |
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I think that with care and preferably some heat you could get a decent bond between aluminium and Carbon/kevlar even in a diy situation. Just pay
attention to joint design.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 16/10/09 at 06:54 PM |
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www.darrian.co.uk
mosler are made from composite panels bonded together .
using this stuff .
www.teklam.com
my chassis has bonded in kevlar/carbon panels .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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StevieB
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| posted on 16/10/09 at 07:53 PM |
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But can you bond carbon/kevlar to ali panels to add strength. Not so much strength in the bending of the panel, but a whole ali monocoque laminated
to unify the structure properly (if that makes sense?)
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 16/10/09 at 09:25 PM |
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in my opinion , bonding kevlar/carbon/grp to ali isnt really applicable in DIY situations since the need for temperature control and the surface
preparation needed .
time has moved on , there maybe products/applications that would work , but, theres no reason to have carbon/kevlar bonded to ali since the composite
is much better at doing it .
if you look at the teklam site , you can indeed get get honeycomb section with ali one side , carbon the other .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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andkilde
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| posted on 16/10/09 at 09:43 PM |
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You just want t be able to do this:
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andkilde
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| posted on 16/10/09 at 10:46 PM |
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Have you been following Denis Palatov's progress on the composite chassis for his DP1?
The pages on the composite chassis are in the "past" logs on www.dpcars.net
http://www.dpcars.net/dp1test/dj.htm
http://www.dpcars.net/dp1v8/da.htm
http://www.dpcars.net/dp1v8/db.htm
He's built his second prototype chassis using honeycomb and a thermoset adhesive.
Doesn't look particularly low cost, OK, doesn't look at all low cost but does look exceptionally well thought out.
t
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