smart51
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| posted on 2/2/09 at 10:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
I still dont believe that a child raised by a same sex couple (male or female) is in any way going to be less 'better to cope with life in
general'.
Can I suggest you look up the studies that have been done on children's life outcomes versus family background. You might find the results
quite interesting.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 2/2/09 at 10:38 PM |
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Totally against it. I'm not a homophobe whatever floats your boat is up to you.
BUT No way on this earth can that be the right decision NO WAY. I mean there is no way these kids are going to get through school without getting
going through absolute hell. They'll be name called and victimised beyond belief by the other kids ( rightly or wrongly it WILL happen). How can
this be best for the kids?? They'll grow up victimised and goodness only knows how they'll turn out. It might make them stronger but
I'd doubt it.
IMHO it'll make them quiet and withdrawn with no social skills at all.
There must surely be a better placed couple to bring them up.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/2/09 at 11:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
Pretty much every study done on the subject shows that children grow up better in a family environment with a mother and father figure than any other
household type. (caveat for loving and non-violent household of all types). Single parents, same sex couples, serial changes of one partner or other
are inferior in every measure of success or happiness.
If the child were the centre of adoption policy then all children being adopted would go to heterosexual couples in stable relationships until all of
those adopters were used up, then they would go to other adopters.
As usual in family law, the children are bottom of the heap. The "rights" of the adopters to adopt over rule the best interests of the
children. The same thing goes for divorce in too many cases. The law enacted states that adopters cannot be chosen on grounds of sexuality so the
council has to place children with them if they meet the criteria applies to everyone else. Great for the adopters but less than ideal for the
children, as usual.
As for this particular case, the daily mail is full of sh*te and I would generally prefer to belive the opposite of what they say in most cases. It
seems fairly clear that the health of the grand parents is too bad to look after the child. Instead the mail prefers to rant against minorities and
government agencies than in any way try
to accurately report the truth.
A very well written input. I am 100% with all the views you express!
Lol, i was going to quote smarts post and agree, but thought id finish reading the thread first, and you beat me with pretty much the exact comment i
was going to put!
So thats +2. 
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flak monkey
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| posted on 3/2/09 at 07:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
I still dont believe that a child raised by a same sex couple (male or female) is in any way going to be less 'better to cope with life in
general'.
Can I suggest you look up the studies that have been done on children's life outcomes versus family background. You might find the results
quite interesting.
May I also suggest that most of those studies are carried out by people of the same mindset as the majority on here? They set out to proove a point on
which the researcher has already made up their mind before it's even begun.
I expected nothing less from a bunch of blokes TBH.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/2/09 at 08:20 AM |
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The problem on this thread is that some people are viewing the posts as somehow having a bit of a 'dig' at homosexuals. That is not the
intention on my part. As I have said in other posts, live and let live etc!
The original post was about a gay relationship being chosen over a heterosexual relationship (also the grandparents) as being the best environment for
kids to grow up. I, along with many of the posters on here, simply believe that to be wholly inaccurate and inappropriate. The simple fact is that
children will have a better start in life if they experience a 'normal' family setting! I don't see how anyone can dispute this or
defend how a gay 'partnership' can be chosen to provide the best environment for a child to grow up! Simple logic really!
[Edited on 3/2/09 by carpmart]
[Edited on 3/2/09 by carpmart]
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 3/2/09 at 11:57 AM |
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Seeing as it appears the general consensus is children will grow up socially inadequate without a mother and father (oh mine were both there btw...
but hey there'll always be exceptions) then how about these situations?
There are "normal" families out there who work so many hours that their children are in daycare from 7am to 6pm. The ones that go to
school are in school, childminder, homework, bed. Is this a good standard?
Is it better to have two dads or to have a mum and dad that doesn't give a cr@p?
Doesn't matter what anyone says I'd rather have a loving family no matter what someone has decided is normal
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nasty
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| posted on 3/2/09 at 07:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
...
The original post was about a gay relationship being chosen over a heterosexual relationship (also the grandparents) as being the best environment for
kids to grow up. I, along with many of the posters on here, simply believe that to be wholly inaccurate and inappropriate. The simple fact is that
children will have a better start in life if they experience a 'normal' family setting! I don't see how anyone can dispute this or
defend how a gay 'partnership' can be chosen to provide the best environment for a child to grow up! Simple logic really!
[Edited on 3/2/09 by carpmart]
[Edited on 3/2/09 by carpmart]
Actually, I had a discussion on this issue with my fiancée who is a child welfare professional and has written a research paper on this topic and
found that this belief is not supported by scientific research. The majority of scientifically robust research show results that suggest that children
brought up by homosexuals do as well, are as happy and by all measures as well off as those brought up by heterosexuals.
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carpmart
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| posted on 4/2/09 at 07:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nasty
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
...
The original post was about a gay relationship being chosen over a heterosexual relationship (also the grandparents) as being the best environment for
kids to grow up. I, along with many of the posters on here, simply believe that to be wholly inaccurate and inappropriate. The simple fact is that
children will have a better start in life if they experience a 'normal' family setting! I don't see how anyone can dispute this or
defend how a gay 'partnership' can be chosen to provide the best environment for a child to grow up! Simple logic really!
[Edited on 3/2/09 by carpmart]
[Edited on 3/2/09 by carpmart]
Actually, I had a discussion on this issue with my fiancée who is a child welfare professional and has written a research paper on this topic and
found that this belief is not supported by scientific research. The majority of scientifically robust research show results that suggest that children
brought up by homosexuals do as well, are as happy and by all measures as well off as those brought up by heterosexuals.
Sorry but I don't buy that!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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James
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| posted on 4/2/09 at 01:50 PM |
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Would never normally read the Mail as it's written for old people and Nazis but atleast it meant I heard about this TV program:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1135379/How-earth-respectable-parents-let-children-enter-Channel-4s-cruel-experiment.html
Child torture on TV...Genius! 
Pity there wasn't a 'control' house with mixed girls and boys to see how they got on. Bet there'd have been less violence
between the boys and less bitchiness between the girls!
Cheers!
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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nasty
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| posted on 4/2/09 at 04:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by nasty
...
Actually, I had a discussion on this issue with my fiancée who is a child welfare professional and has written a research paper on this topic and
found that this belief is not supported by scientific research. The majority of scientifically robust research show results that suggest that children
brought up by homosexuals do as well, are as happy and by all measures as well off as those brought up by heterosexuals.
Sorry but I don't buy that!
Well, I don't know if you're calling me a liar, or just questioning her research. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume
the latter.
It ultimately matters little, many child welfare agencies disagree with you and both follow and support her findings, so in much the same way that I
trust a doctor's diagnosis more than some guy I meet on the street, I tend to trust the professionals in this case and not just the gut feelings
of some random bloke.
Anyway in the end, it's all healthy debate and so long as we continue to put the needs of the children ahead of all others, things will be much
better for all.
BTW, I'd personally love to see them stay with their grandparents (despite the obvious homophobia they display), but only if they were provided
a proper support network so that were they ever unable to take care of the children, that they could rest easy knowing that someone else will help out
until they are back on their feet.
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carpmart
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| posted on 4/2/09 at 05:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nasty
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by nasty
...
Actually, I had a discussion on this issue with my fiancée who is a child welfare professional and has written a research paper on this topic and
found that this belief is not supported by scientific research. The majority of scientifically robust research show results that suggest that children
brought up by homosexuals do as well, are as happy and by all measures as well off as those brought up by heterosexuals.
Sorry but I don't buy that!
Well, I don't know if you're calling me a liar, or just questioning her research. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume
the latter.
It ultimately matters little, many child welfare agencies disagree with you and both follow and support her findings, so in much the same way that I
trust a doctor's diagnosis more than some guy I meet on the street, I tend to trust the professionals in this case and not just the gut feelings
of some random bloke.
Anyway in the end, it's all healthy debate and so long as we continue to put the needs of the children ahead of all others, things will be much
better for all.
BTW, I'd personally love to see them stay with their grandparents (despite the obvious homophobia they display), but only if they were provided
a proper support network so that were they ever unable to take care of the children, that they could rest easy knowing that someone else will help out
until they are back on their feet.
No deliberate slight meant on my part more that I just don't believe that children will not be hindered by being adopted by a gay
partnership.
With regards to the research, I am sure that the data would exist for me to write a paper on the exact same subject as your fiancée and find the data
to support my view as opposed to her findings. Thats the way these things work!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 4/2/09 at 09:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
[With regards to the research, I am sure that the data would exist for me to write a paper on the exact same subject as your fiancée and find the data
to support my view as opposed to her findings. Thats the way these things work!
I could happily write a paper about how global warming is caused by a lack of pirates (the traditional parrot and cutlass wielding, 'yarr'
pirate, not these fake Somali types) and provide some data to back up my theory. Of course it'd be complete balls, correlation does not equal
causation. You can pick and choose statistics to fit any argument you like (just ask the govt), so we're back to arguing pre-conceptions.
At the end of the day, there are far more important considerations to how good a parent you are than where you choose to stick your wang. There are
plenty of straight couples who should be sterilised for the good of humanity, making sweeping statements that a whole community is worse at parenting
than another is pure fallacy.
Without knowing all the detail about this case there's little point in passing judgement.
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MikeR
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| posted on 5/2/09 at 10:36 PM |
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i've been reading this debate and wondering how involved i should get.
I really can't be bothered getting into the argument but I'm with Flak Monkey & Martin_16v on this one.
Now shall we get back to talking about cars before people fall out?
[Edited on 5/2/09 by MikeR]
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Vindi_andy
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| posted on 6/2/09 at 02:45 PM |
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just my 2 pen'orth.
I am not homophobic but am hetero sexual i say live and let live as someone else on here said what I am trying to get my head around is NOT the
homosexual couple issue but the fact that they placed them with a male homosexual couple when supposedly the child was "less happy" when
around men.
Now i will probably get lambasted and blasted for this but if they felt they had to place them with a homosexual couple then surely for the happiness
of the child it would have been better to find a female couple as this would appear to be where the child was most at ease
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carpmart
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| posted on 6/2/09 at 05:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
i've been reading this debate and wondering how involved i should get.
I really can't be bothered getting into the argument but I'm with Flak Monkey & Martin_16v on this one.
Now shall we get back to talking about cars before people fall out?
[Edited on 5/2/09 by MikeR]
Interesting post!
I can't see where you can asses that someone has fallen out? I see the 'debate' on this thread as being adult and objective and
all-in-all good natured. Its important that people feel able to express their views and opinions without any negativity from the rest of the locost
community. That is what has happened with this 'debate' and thats good!
Cars (car related topics) form 95% of what gets discussed but occasionally subjects which provoke polar opposite views also come up and I for one
think this adds a welcome dimension.
MikeR - I for one think its a shame you 'can't be bothered' as I would have welcomed your input!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 6/2/09 at 06:56 PM |
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I'd just like to add that this is the most posted thread I have ever kept bothering to read, so it's all good as far as debate is
concerned
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MikeR
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| posted on 6/2/09 at 07:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
[but cut]
Now shall we get back to talking about cars before people fall out?
[Edited on 5/2/09 by MikeR]
Interesting post!
I can't see where you can asses that someone has fallen out? I see the 'debate' on this thread as being adult and objective and
all-in-all good natured. Its important that people feel able to express their views and opinions without any negativity from the rest of the locost
community. That is what has happened with this 'debate' and thats good!
Cars (car related topics) form 95% of what gets discussed but occasionally subjects which provoke polar opposite views also come up and I for one
think this adds a welcome dimension.
MikeR - I for one think its a shame you 'can't be bothered' as I would have welcomed your input!
I said *BEFORE* people fall out.
These sorts of discussions on this forum have on previously (and thankfully only occasionally) led to very heated debate with personal slanging
matches that have gone on for weeks & been carried over into personal messages and un-related topics. It has even led to a few people quitting the
forum.
As I said, my views have been made pretty much admirably by flak monkey. A good parent is one who brings their kids up well. Not a straight parent who
brings their kids up well.
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