D Beddows
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:20 PM |
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Why no fwd kits........
Ok, I'll start of by saying I'm playing devils advocate a bit here  but why do kit cars generally have to be rwd or no one will consider
them?
After all no one complains about mini/205/etc etc handling and we all pretty much drive fwd cars nowadays anyway....... I know there are various
'packaging' problems but all the rwd cars available nowadays (with the exception of the MX-5) are big old heavy things which don't
really lend themselves to lightweight kit cars.... so why not? is it because everyone just wants to follow the crowd and have a 7 alike because
they're comfortable with the shape as it's different but not too different? It can't be because parts are easier to find and/or
cheaper because they're not.... so go on why not? 
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:23 PM |
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its a massive hassle designing a sporty looking car but with the engine sitting transversely over the FWD drivetrain was the conclusion of a similar
thread that was posted some time ago.
Craig
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dan__wright
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:24 PM |
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because you cant get sideways in a fwd like you can in rwd, rwd is more fun!
FREE THE ROADSTER ONE…!!
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AndyGT
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:25 PM |
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Ask McClaren, Ferrari and a whole host of other sports car manufacturers!!!
At a guess when a FWD car spins wheels it gives uncontrollable (without backing off) understeer whereas a RWD car can have the over/understeer
"dialed" out to suit a particular drivers needs. And if a RWD does spin the wheels it can be controlled more easily by the driver without
having to back off too much.
My question (sorry for the hijack) is why 4WD kits?
Andy
nothing is impossible
everything is possible
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dan__wright
because you cant get sideways in a fwd like you can in rwd, rwd is more fun!
i beg to differ, ive been sideways - sideways - backwards - sideways and upside-down in my fwd
Craig
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AndyGT
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by dan__wright
because you cant get sideways in a fwd like you can in rwd, rwd is more fun!
i beg to differ, ive been sideways - sideways - backwards - sideways and upside-down in my fwd
me too^^^^
nothing is impossible
everything is possible
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evo.rocks
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:27 PM |
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because its much harder to put the power down in a front wheel drive car - for exaple, have you ever hear of a front wheel drive car do 0-60 in 3
seconds??? nope
with to much power you start to create torque steer aswell
rear wheel drive cars are just alot better imho
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eddie99
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:29 PM |
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As above, if it was best. Then why arent all the top manufacturers running fwd?
As for 4wd, i think the cost element stops any 4wd kit cars...
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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fesycresy
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:31 PM |
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Have you ever tried doing a donut in a FWD ?
How else are you supposed to impress the girls in Tesco's car park ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:33 PM |
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if you mean 4wd performance cars then you can get one from Dax. The issue with them is the weight outweighs the traction advantage as it uses the
heavy sierra gear.
Craig
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deezee
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:37 PM |
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Its easier to build a RWD car. The components are separate and laid out better. Your diff is separate from the gearbox. Your steering is separate
from the drive shafts. Its just simpler! Weight distribution is more favourable in a RWD format as well.
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gottabedone
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:39 PM |
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because apparently front wheel drive cars aren't real drivers cars!!
..................so that means that the majority of cars that we drive and have fun it are all crap!
.........Who has driven a Leon Cupra/Civic etc?
We've done this one before and it seemed to come down to pub talk and that only real men drive rear wheel drive cars!
My GTM Rossa was wicked fun - the whole front of a Mtro GTI bolted onto the rear of a monocoque.
I also have a Minari - which is FWD - front end of an Alfasud/33 bolted to the front of a monocoque - Alfa handling 700kg
I think it's about breaking away from the norm - some could stop moaning about packaging problems and make it work.
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BenB
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:40 PM |
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Originally posted by eddie99
As above, if it was best. Then why arent all the top manufacturers running fwd?
Most manafacturers produce vehicles built with the sole purpose of carrying around 2.5 people and half a dog. Fun doesn't come into it!!
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iank
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:41 PM |
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<controversial> because car enthusiasts are sheep just like all other people, the few FWD kitcars manufacturers have trried have all been
pilloried by the herd (who haven't actually driven one) so no one buys them, so no one makes them </controversial>
It's also harder to make a sleek looking sportscar with a tall FWD engine in the front.
Edit: It's quite possible to make a mini oversteer instead of understeer, but those that set up the suspension make it neutral because they
want to go fast.
[Edited on 2/3/10 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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se7en
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by dan__wright
because you cant get sideways in a fwd like you can in rwd, rwd is more fun!
i beg to differ, ive been sideways - sideways - backwards - sideways and upside-down in my fwd
Is this you then?
Or maybe this one?
RWD is the only way a man can enjoy himself, the car becomes part of his body and makes him more masculine (why do you think sports cars have
so much body out front) FWD is for women drivers
[Edited on 2/3/10 by se7en]
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D Beddows
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:48 PM |
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lol, I have to admit I'm a little past wanting to impress 17 year old chav girls outside the chip shop or Tescos  but then why do people lust
after 'Z' cars minis every time they're mentioned? fwd as I recall....... and what is a 'sporty' looking car? people say
Civic Type R's are 'sporty' looking after all!
Edited to say:
Lol IanK - that's what I suspect is going on too but shhhhhhh
[Edited on 2/3/10 by D Beddows]
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dan__wright
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by dan__wright
because you cant get sideways in a fwd like you can in rwd, rwd is more fun!
i beg to differ, ive been sideways - sideways - backwards - sideways and upside-down in my fwd
ok let me rephrase that, you cant get as sideways in a controlable manner in a fwd.
i too have been sideways sideways in a fwd but luckily i caught it.
FREE THE ROADSTER ONE…!!
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:55 PM |
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link
onyx sports cars.
Supposedly quite quick. Looks might be an acquired taste.
Matt
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:58 PM |
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there seems to be a leg/engine interface in that car!
Craig
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se7en
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 04:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Originally posted by eddie99
As above, if it was best. Then why arent all the top manufacturers running fwd?
Most manafacturers produce vehicles built with the sole purpose of carrying around 2.5 people and half a dog. Fun doesn't come into it!!
Because it is much easier for mainstream manufacturers to make an engine, box & diff all in one package. It is also much cheaper than the RWD
options.
Where does one get 'half a dog'?
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kj
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 04:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by se7en
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by dan__wright
because you cant get sideways in a fwd like you can in rwd, rwd is more fun!
i beg to differ, ive been sideways - sideways - backwards - sideways and upside-down in my fwd
Is this you then?
Or maybe this one?
RWD is the only way a man can enjoy himself, the car becomes part of his body and makes him more masculine (why do you think sports cars have
so much body out front) FWD is for women drivers
[Edited on 2/3/10 by se7en]
Look at the Tyre on that robin hood
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Humbug
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 04:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
Have you ever tried doing a donut in a FWD ?
How else are you supposed to impress the girls in Tesco's car park ?
Presumably you could do one in reverse, because then the front becomes the back and vice versa?
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Humbug
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 04:06 PM |
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Also, there are a few kits (and home designs) that use FWD engine and transmission to give mid-rear layout with RWD. Maybe that's the way to go?
The result just doesn't look much like a seven.
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smart51
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 04:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by deezee
Its easier to build a RWD car. The components are separate and laid out better. Your diff is separate from the gearbox. Your steering is separate
from the drive shafts. Its just simpler! Weight distribution is more favourable in a RWD format as well.
But if you use a FWD donor, all that work is done for you. Simply take your FWD engine / box / diff etc and bolt it to your new chassis in the same
position.
Take your hot hatch of choice, fit the oily bits to a nice space frame. Add a light weigh body and instantly your power to weight ratio goes up by
50% to 100%. I'd have thought this would be the easiest type of kit conversion.
The obvious down side is weight distribution. FWD cars are front heavy and removing all the rear weight will only make it worse. Then you've
got to make a front upper wishbone fit around a transverse engine. The metro did this by having a very short top wishbone but that's not
exactly ideal. I suppose you could have a very wide one.
RWD is "better" so that's what enthusiasts want. I'd be happy enough in a well sorted FWD kit.
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hughpinder
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 04:11 PM |
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I thought part of the driver appeal was that when you put the power through a separate set of tyres to those you're using to steer, you get a
better feel of the road?
Hugh
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