w4lrus
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 12:39 PM |
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Unlocking a diff
If a diff has been locked by welding the planet gears, can it be fixed by taking the planet gears from another diff (with a different ratio)? Or I am
barking up the wrong tree?
Thanks
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 12:42 PM |
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Yes
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britishtrident
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 03:31 PM |
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No
But you can remove the diff cage unbolt the crown wheel swap it onto the undamaged diff cage (the bit that contains the sun & planet gears)
and put that into original final drive housing. The final drive will then need to be properly set up so the pinnion and sun gear mesh corectly -
not normally a DIY job.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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w4lrus
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 01:36 PM |
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I think that I need to understand the inside of a diff before I contemplate doing this. It sounds like I am going to need a specialist to set up the
diff after I have gathered the parts anyway.
Thanks for the information
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loggyboy
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 01:47 PM |
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Any reason for not just replacing with another complete diff?
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w4lrus
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 01:59 PM |
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Price - Grass trackers and stock racers are selling 3.38 diffs that have been welded locked cheaper than a standard open diff
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 02:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by w4lrus
I think that I need to understand the inside of a diff before I contemplate doing this. It sounds like I am going to need a specialist to set up the
diff after I have gathered the parts anyway.
Thanks for the information
Main tool you would need is a diff casing spreader --- I would farm the work out
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Agriv8
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 02:50 PM |
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if just the gears have been welded I am going for yes. If the planet bears have been welded to the Planet Cage ' I would go for no'.
regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 08:07 PM |
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If a diff has been locked by welding the planet gears, can it be fixed by taking the planet gears from another diff (with a different
ratio)
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
No
But you can remove the diff cage unbolt the crown wheel swap it onto the undamaged diff cage (the bit that contains the sun & planet gears)
and put that into original final drive housing. The final drive will then need to be properly set up so the pinnion and sun gear mesh corectly -
not normally a DIY job.
Total bollocks! 
I've taken welded, or broken/damaged, sun and planet diff gears out more than once.
Replace the gears with unwelded items and new cross shafts, and job's done. Gee, if the cross shafts haven't been damaged, they may be
useable, but I'd still replace them at least.
No need to go anywhere near the crownwheel and pinion.
Not on english type diffs anyway, nor BW diffs which are similar, or the old J van diffs we ran in sprintcars in aus way back.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 20/2/12 by Neville Jones]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 09:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
If a diff has been locked by welding the planet gears, can it be fixed by taking the planet gears from another diff (with a different
ratio)
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
No
But you can remove the diff cage unbolt the crown wheel swap it onto the undamaged diff cage (the bit that contains the sun & planet gears)
and put that into original final drive housing. The final drive will then need to be properly set up so the pinnion and sun gear mesh corectly -
not normally a DIY job.
Total bollocks!
I've taken welded, or broken/damaged, sun and planet diff gears out more than once.
Replace the gears with unwelded items and new cross shafts, and job's done. Gee, if the cross shafts haven't been damaged, they may be
useable, but I'd still replace them at least.
No need to go anywhere near the crownwheel and pinion.
Not on english type diffs anyway, nor BW diffs which are similar, or the old J van diffs we ran in sprintcars in aus way back.
Cheers,
Nev..
[Edited on 20/2/12 by Neville Jones]
I am totally in awe at the level of your lack of knowledge
Apart from the fact you talk about "unwelding" which is impossiible you can unbraze and unsolder but not unweld. it is
fairly clearly you have never even seen inside a differential there are no "cross shafts" just a single cross pin, unweld..
Even if the gears have not been welded to the cage just been too each other they can't be removed from cage without completely separating the
sun and planet wheels if they have been welded sufficiently to properly lock the diff that isn't going to happen without a fight.
It is possible to cut through the diff innards with a gas axe or decent sized plasma cutter but that degree of hot work l near the crown wheel and
pinion is a non starter.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 10:00 PM |
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These are the first 3 pictures of Sierra welded diffs that Google Image search produced. Unweld ? !!! rtof
]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Rob Allison
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 10:13 PM |
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They will file back into shape
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daviep
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 10:17 PM |
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^^^ BT I think you should put your reading glasses on before before you get on your high horse, no where does Nev suggest that it is possible to
"unweld" something. It's quite clear that the use of the term "unwelded" is used to mean and item which has not
previously been welded, the same way you may describe an item as being "unmarked" meaning it is in good condition not that it was
previously marked but now it is not.
I do however agree that I don't think you could remove the diff gears with out the use of cutting gear.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 10:21 AM |
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Gas axe is the only way of getting those in the picture out. Sometimes you can get away with a lump hammer and cold chisel, and the gears and shafts
will fracture.
But, from those pics, the housing is knackered as well. Shame really, as the welding appears fairly rough and ready. The work of grass or circle
trackers??
Cheers,
Nev.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 10:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Gas axe is the only way of getting those in the picture out. Sometimes you can get away with a lump hammer and cold chisel, and the gears and shafts
will fracture.
But, from those pics, the housing is knackered as well. Shame really, as the welding appears fairly rough and ready. The work of grass or circle
trackers??
Cheers,
Nev.
They are just the first three on a google image search, not the diff in question.
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pewe
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 10:31 AM |
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W4lrus, there's a chap called John in High Wycombe who trades as UK Axles.
Either google him or drop me a U2U for his mob.
He hasn't done any work for me but seemed to know his onions.
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe10 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 11:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Gas axe is the only way of getting those in the picture out. Sometimes you can get away with a lump hammer and cold chisel, and the gears and shafts
will fracture.
But, from those pics, the housing is knackered as well. Shame really, as the welding appears fairly rough and ready. The work of grass or circle
trackers??
Cheers,
Nev.
They are just the first three on a google image search, not the diff in question.
They just happened to be the first 3 search results a "G-random" selection not cherry picked, the search turned up lots of very
similar images
And finally
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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locoR1
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 11:57 AM |
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I'm with britishtrident on this one assuming the planet gears are welded together they wouldn't come out without a fight and most welded
diffs inc the ones I've done would be fully welded to the carrier for strength anyway.
 
Description
Check out my CB500T Cafe Racer build diary
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Agriv8
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 12:24 PM |
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thats the one I would say NO to thats how we did the ones in the offroad buggy (Range rover axle) as you are welding the planet gears to the cage for
extra strength had a tendency to do half shafts after that cant think Why 
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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bartonp
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Gas axe is the only way of getting those in the picture out. Sometimes you can get away with a lump hammer and cold chisel, and the gears and shafts
will fracture.
But, from those pics, the housing is knackered as well. Shame really, as the welding appears fairly rough and ready. The work of grass or circle
trackers??
Cheers,
Nev.
They are just the first three on a google image search, not the diff in question.
They just happened to be the first 3 search results a "G-random" selection not cherry picked, the search turned up lots of very
similar images
And finally
ROTFL :- that last one has the crown wheel & pinion welded!!!!!!!!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 01:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bartonp
ROTFL :- that last one has the crown wheel & pinion welded!!!!!!!!
A fairly famous internet hoax that was put up on various forums a few years ago and went viral. Allegedly done by a fairly experience diffwelder on a
4x4 forum as a laugh not realising it would become quite infamous.
[Edited on 21/2/12 by loggyboy]
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nick205
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 04:29 PM |
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Mr Neville and Mr BT....
Have to say I have no idea (and little interest) on the subject matter, but you two are always a great read together 
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Andy S
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 04:55 PM |
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The evergreen argument about the possible and the practicable - almost anything is possible - but very often not practicable.
So the answer is yes but chances are no..... 
And if playing with word for the sake of it you could also ague the issue that "locked" and "fixed" are actually the same
thing with the meaning of the words in the good old English language .....
The possibilities are endless - well possibly - but practicably..... not so much
Andrew
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britishtrident
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 09:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Mr Neville and Mr BT....
Have to say I have no idea (and little interest) on the subject matter, but you two are always a great read together
Putting Syd Bridge straight has to be done, a few years back Syd Bridge was so down right nasty to a guy called Rorty so much that he drove him
off the forum. Rorty was one the early stalwarts of this forum he had the insight to see through a problem and produced a lot of good original
stuff for forums members including his famous de Dion plans. No matter how wrong he knew he was Syd Bridge always went into discussions with
the gloves off and was always unpleasant at a personal level. To give you an idea how cheap things were one of Syd's many stunts was to to
create phantom supporters on the forum.
Even if you ignore the rudeness, aggressiveness lack of real knowledge, bluffing and relentless self promotion Syd Bridge posts are very
easy to spot no matter what the user name he uses. there are a number of give always for example how many net users do you know always
sign off with " Cheers " christian name.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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daviep
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 09:47 PM |
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^^^^ the search function would suggest I've signed off "Cheers Davie" on over 100 threads. I promise I'm not an alter ego
Later
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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